I don't honestly think it matters if the runway was 1200' or 12,000'. An unstable approach is an unstable approach.

Being 20-25 feet high on a visual approach at 400 ft agl on a visual approach in flat country on a long runway is a much different situation than full blown IMC to mins on a short rwy in a mountainous area.

Would you call unstable approach on a visual approach if the crew was 10 feet high at 200 agl? That would be 3 white and red on the papi's.

Landing on 16R at DEN at the far end of the touchdown zone with 13,000 feet left is a lot different than landing 3,000 feet down the runway at SNA.

At some point....common sense needs to kick in.

I know that some of the guys that live in simulators would disagree.

As far as the original post, a jump seater should speak up if things get dangerous...but you better make sure you know what you're talking about! I'm not going to sit there and watch the plane crash (a la Asiana pilots in SFO).

Go ahead.


Start calling commands from a jumpseat. I bet you will hear about it.


If this sort of thing makes sense to you, don't ever ride on any airline jumpseat.


Come ride on mine and start with commands. We'll see how many jumpseats you ever get to ride on again.

As a jumpseater you should help look for traffic and say thanks for the ride. That's it and that's all.

I guess I'd better start checking the notams when I jumpseat.

Wait, so you're going to make me look for traffic but if something happens that is life threatening, I'm supposed to sit and grin?

Granted, it would take A LOT to get me to say something about anyone's approach especially on another airline's jumpseat but if I know for sure the aircraft is in a dangerous state, I'm going to say something. I don't care if it hurts your fragile ego.

I've coughed really loudly as we blew through 10,000ft at 320kts once.... they got the message, but no one said thank you.

Another time I watched a crew select speed mode for a climb without advancing the thrust levers in Class B airspace at 6,000ft... we started descending at 1,500fpm, and lost 500ft.

I've seen improper use of lights several times (no strobes, leaving beacon on, etc).

I've seen blown crossing restrictions.

And best of all... I've seen ALL of that on the same flight.

Don't take it so literally. Of course speak up for life-threatening or certificate-violating situations, but calling a go-around is overstepping. Even a third or fourth operating crew member in the observer seat calling for a go-around would get you a "what the hell are you doing?" unless certain death is imminent.

First of all, I took it literally because you emphasised your point with "that's it and that's all." That is the definition of, take this literally.

Second, I never said to just start calling "go around" because you're a little unstable. But I have said, "um, I'm pretty sure he said 12,000 not 14,000." As long as you are professional about it, most crews appreciate the help.

And just to be clear, I wouldn't have called GA in the scenario presented. I don't think a dot high at 400 feet is enough for me to get involved, especially on a long runway. Now, full scale, power idle on a short runway? I'd probably say something to the Captain.