Calling go-around from the jumpseat
04-24-2017, 07:48 AM
#41
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Joined APC: May 2009
Position: Square root of the variance and average of the variation
Posts: 1,602
Just to add fuel, I've had one captain in maybe 100 say, " you're part of the crew if you see anything don't just sit there." I think that sets a good tone. As a B6 guy I've had AA guys new to the bus both look back at me at the same time when an ECAM message pops up though
I'd probably approach it the same way I'd do with one of my fellow pilots... did you still want the speed brakes out? (Message flashing, dirty, powering up...) Toss out the old calm, casual, professional inquiry. I had some trouble with the GS here before...does that PAPI look off to you? I need to get something out there. If only for the CVR. And the fact that I have a safety role on the pilot side and am on a first name basis with an NTSB board member complicates it.
I'd probably approach it the same way I'd do with one of my fellow pilots... did you still want the speed brakes out? (Message flashing, dirty, powering up...) Toss out the old calm, casual, professional inquiry. I had some trouble with the GS here before...does that PAPI look off to you? I need to get something out there. If only for the CVR. And the fact that I have a safety role on the pilot side and am on a first name basis with an NTSB board member complicates it.
04-24-2017, 07:57 AM
#43
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Joined APC: Feb 2015
Posts: 253
Originally Posted by DENpilot
Just curious, is there any etiquette or what would would you do....?
400' agl, engines still at idle, full dot high on GS, ultimately landed outside TDZ. First time I've been scared in the jumpseat.
400' agl, engines still at idle, full dot high on GS, ultimately landed outside TDZ. First time I've been scared in the jumpseat.
04-24-2017, 08:01 AM
#44
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,912
Originally Posted by Poppachubby
Not trying to make light of the situation yet this doesn't seem like it warrants a "scary" situation. I'm going to guess you haven't been doing this to long? Who hasn't blown by the TDZ once or twice. I'm all for saying something if its life or death, but like others have said.....you'd better be sure its that bad. Nothing more annoying than the "excited" junior "backseat drivers" that thinks they are so much better than the guy at the helm!
04-24-2017, 08:12 AM
#45
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: A-320
Posts: 1,122
I've been in the jumpseat before when the crew set the wrong flap setting for takeoff. I spoke up and they corrected it.
Without more info such as runway length and airplane type it's hard to say exactly how to handle this situation. I'd let it go if landing distance isn't a factor. If it is "looks unstable" is probably a good place to start.
Without more info such as runway length and airplane type it's hard to say exactly how to handle this situation. I'd let it go if landing distance isn't a factor. If it is "looks unstable" is probably a good place to start.
04-24-2017, 08:25 AM
#47
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Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: retired 767(dl)
Posts: 5,724
Originally Posted by Hacker15e
Being unstable at an arbitrary point (be it 1000' or 500') isn't, in and of itself, a dangerous situation.
04-24-2017, 08:34 AM
#48
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,912
Originally Posted by Hacker15e
Being unstable at an arbitrary point (be it 1000' or 500') isn't, in and of itself, a dangerous situation.
http://www.faa.gov/regulations_polic...7_afh_ch15.pdf
The airplane should be on profile before descending below 1,000 feet. Configuration, trim, speed, and glidepath should be at or near the optimum parameters early in the approach to avoid distractions and conflicts as the airplane nears the threshold window. An optimum glidepath angle of 2.5° to 3° should be established and maintained.
04-24-2017, 08:54 AM
#50
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Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: UPS Captain
Posts: 837
Originally Posted by jcountry
Go ahead.
Start calling commands from a jumpseat. I bet you will hear about it.
If this sort of thing makes sense to you, don't ever ride on any airline jumpseat.
Come ride on mine and start with commands. We'll see how many jumpseats you ever get to ride on again.
Start calling commands from a jumpseat. I bet you will hear about it.
If this sort of thing makes sense to you, don't ever ride on any airline jumpseat.
Come ride on mine and start with commands. We'll see how many jumpseats you ever get to ride on again.
Not giving commands from the jump-seat. Pointing out a deviation that jeopardize the safety of the aircraft goes beyond ego and feelings. You need to check yours. There are standard procedures that all airlines must adhere to. If they are outside those parameters it is the duty of anyone in the cockpit to call it out.
The airline industry has too many accidents to list on APC, where something like this has transpired, when either no one said anything or something was said and the operating crew chose to ignore the comments resulting in an accident.
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