Calling go-around from the jumpseat
04-24-2017, 06:38 AM
#31
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 532
Originally Posted by CBreezy
First of all, I took it literally because you emphasised your point with "that's it and that's all." That is the definition of, take this literally.
Second, I never said to just start calling "go around" because you're a little unstable. But I have said, "um, I'm pretty sure he said 12,000 not 14,000." As long as you are professional about it, most crews appreciate the help.
Second, I never said to just start calling "go around" because you're a little unstable. But I have said, "um, I'm pretty sure he said 12,000 not 14,000." As long as you are professional about it, most crews appreciate the help.
04-24-2017, 06:44 AM
#32
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,512
Is this really that difficult?
Don't be a backseat driver or Jumpseat Lance Captain...but also don't swallow your tongue and allow the crew to get violated or do something that endangers the safety of the aircraft when a prompt may draw attention to the coming FUBAR.
Sometimes, a set of eyes a little further back can see things that the two sets of eyes closer to the windscreen cannot...
Don't be a backseat driver or Jumpseat Lance Captain...but also don't swallow your tongue and allow the crew to get violated or do something that endangers the safety of the aircraft when a prompt may draw attention to the coming FUBAR.
Sometimes, a set of eyes a little further back can see things that the two sets of eyes closer to the windscreen cannot...
04-24-2017, 06:51 AM
#33
Happy at PDT
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: EMB-145 CA
Posts: 983
Originally Posted by sky80
Being 20-25 feet high on a visual approach at 400 ft agl on a visual approach in flat country on a long runway is a much different situation than full blown IMC to mins on a short rwy in a mountainous area.
Would you call unstable approach on a visual approach if the crew was 10 feet high at 200 agl? That would be 3 white and red on the papi's.
Would you call unstable approach on a visual approach if the crew was 10 feet high at 200 agl? That would be 3 white and red on the papi's.
04-24-2017, 06:53 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,912
Originally Posted by DENpilot
Just curious, is there any etiquette or what would would you do....?
400' agl, engines still at idle, full dot high on GS, ultimately landed outside TDZ. First time I've been scared in the jumpseat.
400' agl, engines still at idle, full dot high on GS, ultimately landed outside TDZ. First time I've been scared in the jumpseat.
All approaches should be stabilized by 1,000 feet AFE in instrument meteorological conditions (IMC) and by 500 feet AFE in visual meteorological conditions (VMC). An approach is considered stabilized when all of the following criteria are met:
• the airplane is on the correct flight path
• only small changes in heading and pitch are required to maintain the correct flight path
• the airplane should be at approach speed. Deviations of +10 knots to – 5 knots are acceptable if the airspeed is trending toward approach speed • the airplane is in the correct landing configuration
• sink rate is no greater than 1,000 fpm; if an approach requires a sink rate greater than 1,000 fpm, a special briefing should be conducted
• thrust setting is appropriate for the airplane configuration
• all briefings and checklists have been conducted. Specific types of approaches are stabilized if they also fulfill the following:
• ILS and GLS approaches should be flown within one dot of the glide slope and localizer, or within the expanded localizer scale
• approaches using IAN should be flown within one dot of the glide path and FAC
• during a circling approach, wings should be level on final when the airplane reaches 300 feet AFE
• the airplane is on the correct flight path
• only small changes in heading and pitch are required to maintain the correct flight path
• the airplane should be at approach speed. Deviations of +10 knots to – 5 knots are acceptable if the airspeed is trending toward approach speed • the airplane is in the correct landing configuration
• sink rate is no greater than 1,000 fpm; if an approach requires a sink rate greater than 1,000 fpm, a special briefing should be conducted
• thrust setting is appropriate for the airplane configuration
• all briefings and checklists have been conducted. Specific types of approaches are stabilized if they also fulfill the following:
• ILS and GLS approaches should be flown within one dot of the glide slope and localizer, or within the expanded localizer scale
• approaches using IAN should be flown within one dot of the glide path and FAC
• during a circling approach, wings should be level on final when the airplane reaches 300 feet AFE
My previous carrier required stabilized no later than 1,000' AGL regardless of the weather conditions.
04-24-2017, 06:59 AM
#35
All is fine at .79
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 4,085
Originally Posted by jcountry
This is what I'd do.
Giving a hint is fine. Pointing something out is fine, but commands-Nope. Definitely not fine.
Giving a hint is fine. Pointing something out is fine, but commands-Nope. Definitely not fine.
The total picture is important here.
Type? VMC? IMC? Runway length?
It met be perfectly fine in one scenario and not the next.
A Saab 340 been told maximum speed till 5 miles final on a visual on a 10,000' runway I don't care about the touchdown zone perse as other things take priority especially with other traffic behind you.
A 737 in the rain in IMC at LGA, not a good idea.
04-24-2017, 07:23 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 505
Speaking of the subject. That incident with southwest in lga I believe thats where it was with the female captain. The FAA went after the American Airlines jumpseater for not calling a go around.
Last edited by pilot0987; 04-24-2017 at 07:24 AM. Reason: Jj
04-24-2017, 07:25 AM
#37
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 532
Originally Posted by pilot0987
Speaking of the subject. That incident with southwest in lga I believe that where it was with the female captain. The FAA went after the American Airlines jumpseater for not calling a go around.
04-24-2017, 07:33 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 505
Originally Posted by Whiplash6
How would an AA pilot know the SOPs of a SWA pilot. Hell, their approach profiles are probably the same as a C-17 tactical landing.
04-24-2017, 07:34 AM
#39
Get me outta here...
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: Boeing right seat
Posts: 1,541
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
So if you're on the jumpseat of say UPS 1354, then just go ahead and die?
04-24-2017, 07:48 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,213
Originally Posted by pilot0987
Speaking of the subject. That incident with southwest in lga I believe thats where it was with the female captain. The FAA went after the American Airlines jumpseater for not calling a go around.
What did the NTSB say? When should he have called for a g/a?
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