Calling go-around from the jumpseat
04-23-2017, 08:54 PM
#13
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Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 39
Originally Posted by DENpilot
Just curious, is there any etiquette or what would would you do....?
400' agl, engines still at idle, full dot high on GS, ultimately landed outside TDZ. First time I've been scared in the jumpseat.
400' agl, engines still at idle, full dot high on GS, ultimately landed outside TDZ. First time I've been scared in the jumpseat.
04-23-2017, 08:55 PM
#14
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,281
I would call it if I was...
1) Scared for life or limb and
2) Familiar enough with the airplane to be able to judge (I probably couldn't judge a 747 flare for example).
At least one legacy has a policy requiring a GA if a jumpseater calls it.
1) Scared for life or limb and
2) Familiar enough with the airplane to be able to judge (I probably couldn't judge a 747 flare for example).
At least one legacy has a policy requiring a GA if a jumpseater calls it.
04-23-2017, 09:00 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: Volleyball Player
Posts: 3,982
Originally Posted by jcountry
I know of a situation where a plane (737) landed so hard the nose gear axle broke....
One tire went bounding down the runway to get ingested by the left engine, the other got ingested by the right.... Fortunately, they just slid to a stop on or near the runway with some pretty extensive damage...... But that easily could have killed everyone onboard.
Why?
Because as the pilots broke out, one said "I got it."
The guy who said it meant "I have the runway in sight."
The other guy released controls because he thought the "I got it" meant the other pilot was taking control of the aircraft..... So the plane touched down with both pilots thinking the other guy had the controls.
One tire went bounding down the runway to get ingested by the left engine, the other got ingested by the right.... Fortunately, they just slid to a stop on or near the runway with some pretty extensive damage...... But that easily could have killed everyone onboard.
Why?
Because as the pilots broke out, one said "I got it."
The guy who said it meant "I have the runway in sight."
The other guy released controls because he thought the "I got it" meant the other pilot was taking control of the aircraft..... So the plane touched down with both pilots thinking the other guy had the controls.
04-23-2017, 09:05 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: UPS Captain
Posts: 837
Originally Posted by jcountry
This goes way beyond etiquette.....
You would NEVER say anything like "go around" from the Jumpseat!
You would NEVER say anything like "go around" from the Jumpseat!
Gee MR. Check airman or MR. FAA..... I did not know I was really suppose to go around when I was that far out of parameters when you call it.....especially since you were in the jumpseat!
Last edited by JustUnderPar; 04-23-2017 at 09:06 PM. Reason: Buzzz Buzzz
04-24-2017, 01:10 AM
#17
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 492
Originally Posted by DENpilot
Just curious, is there any etiquette or what would would you do....?
400' agl, engines still at idle, full dot high on GS, ultimately landed outside TDZ. First time I've been scared in the jumpseat.
400' agl, engines still at idle, full dot high on GS, ultimately landed outside TDZ. First time I've been scared in the jumpseat.
04-24-2017, 02:44 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 389
Originally Posted by jcountry
I know of a situation where a plane (737) landed so hard the nose gear axle broke....
One tire went bounding down the runway to get ingested by the left engine, the other got ingested by the right.... Fortunately, they just slid to a stop on or near the runway with some pretty extensive damage...... But that easily could have killed everyone onboard.
Why?
Because as the pilots broke out, one said "I got it."
The guy who said it meant "I have the runway in sight."
The other guy released controls because he thought the "I got it" meant the other pilot was taking control of the aircraft..... So the plane touched down with both pilots thinking the other guy had the controls.
Easy to see how bad things happen if the wrong thing is said at the wrong time. And "go around" from a jumpseater is always the wrong thing.
-Of course we can all imagine situations where the jumpseater would need to say something..... I would recommend "check your glideslope" or "you are unstable." Nothing wrong with speaking up, just don't use the exact phrase another pilot would use to trigger any maneuver.
One tire went bounding down the runway to get ingested by the left engine, the other got ingested by the right.... Fortunately, they just slid to a stop on or near the runway with some pretty extensive damage...... But that easily could have killed everyone onboard.
Why?
Because as the pilots broke out, one said "I got it."
The guy who said it meant "I have the runway in sight."
The other guy released controls because he thought the "I got it" meant the other pilot was taking control of the aircraft..... So the plane touched down with both pilots thinking the other guy had the controls.
Easy to see how bad things happen if the wrong thing is said at the wrong time. And "go around" from a jumpseater is always the wrong thing.
-Of course we can all imagine situations where the jumpseater would need to say something..... I would recommend "check your glideslope" or "you are unstable." Nothing wrong with speaking up, just don't use the exact phrase another pilot would use to trigger any maneuver.
04-24-2017, 02:49 AM
#19
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Joined APC: Apr 2016
Position: 747 CA
Posts: 57
Originally Posted by DENpilot
Just curious, is there any etiquette or what would would you do....?
400' agl, engines still at idle, full dot high on GS, ultimately landed outside TDZ. First time I've been scared in the jumpseat.
400' agl, engines still at idle, full dot high on GS, ultimately landed outside TDZ. First time I've been scared in the jumpseat.
If you see something that even remotely looks like a reason to go-around due to obvious aircraft state, you are OBLIGED to call the "Go-Around"!
ACM - Additional Crew Member, NOT "Passenger".
Our policy is a "No-Fault" go-around policy, no questions JUST DO IT!
Brief it up after you land, no harm, no foul and thanks for the extra set of eyes.
Anybody that has the opinion that they should not speak up, needs to remain in the aft cabin!
04-24-2017, 04:15 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 747 captain
Posts: 1,549
Originally Posted by jcountry
This goes way beyond etiquette.....
You would NEVER say anything like "go around" from the Jumpseat!
It would definitely cause confusion-and you are very close to the ground.
.
You would NEVER say anything like "go around" from the Jumpseat!
It would definitely cause confusion-and you are very close to the ground.
.
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