flensr

Maybe 75% of CAs I've jumpseated with have briefed me "if you see anything, speak up", or something to that effect. Makes it easy that way. Still need to use common sense, but diplomatically bringing up errors shouldn't be a problem for a reasonably well managed crew. Yes you don't want to distract a crew flying a challenging approach in bad wx for example, but what if they've only got 2 green and didn't notice? Or are ignoring off flags in required navaids? I've seen both of those in my previous job.

Directing a go-around? Tough call, being directive in a critical phase of flight. When immediate action is needed, comm should be directive then descriptive. But saying "we're really high, are you going to make the touchdown zone?" or even just "landing long ok?" before it gets to that point shouldn't steal too much of the PF's attention and might give a hesitant PM confirmation that its borked enough to justify a go-around call.

It sure makes it a lot easier when the CA specifically briefs what he expects from JS as a safety observer though.

If in doubt, consider...
"2"
"Bingo"
"Lead you're on fire"

Purpleanga

What would a new Chinese second officer in the JS watching the senior CA get high and fast say? Nothing, and keep his honor.

(Sarcasm)

OuterMarker

I thought CRM, among other things, was supposed to get rid of the Tyrant Captains, where everyone else had to shut up unless spoken to?

TexanDriver

As a JSer you will die about .00001 seconds after the pilots, so if it's safety of flight definitely call it out. That said, when we we have JSers I always tell em they're part of the crew so if they see something we don't to please call it out. I don't mind the back up. If you do, check your ego.

Purpleanga

Dude seriously? Who goes past the touch down zone? You'd really have to try to go past it, that's why you're supposed to go around.

155mm

This is good advice overall, just want to add my two cents! I agree, most Captains say speak up if you see something you don't like. Many years ago as a Jumpseater to an airport I flew in and out of many times, I noticed on short final (1/2 mile) that the crew was lined up for the wrong runway at night(general aviation runway that was too short for a safe landing in a B727). I stated out loud in a calm voice you're lined up for the wrong runway suggest a right downwind at 6000 feet to avoid terrain. Captain went around and made an uneventful landing on the correct runway, never said a word to me.

In this "case study" I didn't "command" anything, I simply pointed out a deviation and made a recommendation that increased his situational awareness (SA). The Captain used proper ADM to correct the situation.

deadseal

If I was on my own metal, and are/was trained on that aircraft, I'd call commands in a heartbeat if it met criteria. The captain could lmb if he had a problem with that.

To the dude that basically said shut up and color, this isn't the Air Force, and you aren't in your light gray. Welcome to chill town and have a cold one on me.

Precontact

Very similar to the Asiana crash at SFO (OK they're Korean)...

C130driver

Maybe not Chinese, but definitely Koreans, which explains their unusually high accident rates several years ago.

In a former community, copilots were taught to shut up, sit on their hands and only say 3 things. That type of mentality breeds the HALO effect which is a recipe for disaster. Now, big difference between the copilot and jumpseater but when you're in the business of propelling hundred lives and thousand pounds of metal through the air, there is no room for ego dissuading people from questioning the man in charge when she/he is off parameters.

Poppachubby

Yes dude.....seriously! Who goes past.....really....happens more than you seem to think! How long you been doing this? So say your a foot above the ground on a 12000 foot RWY and you watched the last mark go by.....you'd go around? You must be wound pretty tight. Are you Riddle......UND?

Listen, I don't make a habit of it. Don't know if I could count one hand even. However have seen it happen numerous times.....even from the jumpseat. Go to the airport and watch landings some day. I'd bet you'd see one within an hour. Usually people that are working for the "greaser" or the high fast ones.