Swedish Blender

I've mentioned something twice in 21 years on the Jumpseat. I was wrong both times but the captain thanked me each time.

I was riding a F100 the first time and didn't know you could take off with flaps up.
I was riding a DC9 and didn't know you could take off with the APU running.

Couldn't do either in the 727.

TheFly

What about the 2 other pilots in the Jumpseat at Asiana? So were they not just as responsible as the PF and PM?

Whiplash6

That's a little different than being one dot high in an A320 or whatever it was.

TheFly

Well, the discussion started that way, but I'm responding to some of the above comments. If you see something, say something...period. However, use good judgement. Weighing the consequences of speaking up vs not speaking up...ijs.

TheFly

I was jumping on WN & the center pumps were running dry & no one noticed. I let it go for around 30 seconds then tapped the FO, pointed to the OHP, then he tapped the CA. Not back seat driving, not being an eager beaver...just doing my job as an ACM.

Knotcher

Unless it was my company metal on my qualified aircraft, I would make damn sure it would be a stuff is going to hit the fan situation unless I say something. I am not familiar with other airlnes SOPs or other aircraft procedures. For example, at my airline there is no requirement for the engines to be spooled.

ugleeual

^^^THIS^^^ this is a tough one for sure... but my guess is when your hair on the back of your neck starts to stand up its time to speak up.

Knotcher

Or you could just say "Man I wish the centers would auto shutoff in this plane"....brings attention to the issue without "correcting" the crew.

Mikey Donuts

Probably setting myself up for a flaming but as a current AF guy (KC-135) this thread is very interesting to me. It's standard in our community to honor a GA call from anyone in the cockpit including Boom Operators fresh out of the schoolhouse. Over the years we've lost 60+ 135s and have learned a thing or two about the cost/benefit of remaining a silent witness to your own demise. If a GA is called, execute the procedure, a quick "what did you see?" if the reason for the call isn't obvious, reaccomplish the approach, no big deal. I'd much rather have someone jump the gun a bit than burn it in because I set the tone of "I know what I'm doing so S*FU while I'm flying". That style of cockpit management is indicative of a weak dick pilot.

JamesNoBrakes

Well, no, the PIC is going to be the one ultimately responsible. I know of many cases where something bad has happened and most of the fallout is on the PIC as far as certificate actions and sanctions and the SIC gets by with either nothing or comparatively almost nothing (no certificate action), and that's for a required crewmember. If it's a non-required crewmember, unless they are interfering with the flight crew, there's no "responsibility" there, except for your own survival and safety, which IMO trumps everything else anyway.

Now, as stated elsewhere, you better be familiar with that airplane/airline procedures before you say something that may not affect safety. If it's critically important (fire, something exceeding a defined limit, unsafe sink rate or location), then you gotta make that call. You are correct that you (or I) will be interviewed and someone will ask, "didn't you see it? Why did you not say anything?". There may not be anything enforceable there, but it'll look really bad. IMO, this is part of why you are paid the big bucks, to make this call on what is important and affects safety, and what is not.

The simple way to think about it is this IMO: if something bad is about to happen, you want your voice on that CVR.