Allow me to correct one thing:
Everything you said is true IF the “flowbacks” were to go to the top of the list, or integrated into it, or had some special provision where they were guaranteed a CA seat regardless of seniority (this is what screwed up the last flow back clusterf*#k).

If ENY were to hire furloughed AA pilots as new hires with no special seniority provisions, this could be done without input from ALPA. It wouldn’t really hurt anyone here, so I don’t see any reason for us to object anyway. We (ALPA) don’t get a say in who ENY hires. The contract only governs their conditions once they’re on property.

There’s several issues here. There are three wholly owned regionals now. They would all have to take flow backs.

Would you only flow BACK if you had come from that regional? Technically that’s the only way it is an actual flow back. Other wise a flow DOWN, maybe.

AA is giving all sorts of things to the pilots it is displacing. Envoy isn’t even willing to TALK about anything.

I’m sure AA will try and use us as much as possible if they can get away with it. We cost less than mainline and with the current loads, there aren’t a lot of routes we couldn’t fly. But Envoy is having flying cut as well. Just how much we don’t know. Even with flying shifted our way, we will still ultimately need less staffing.

Envoy wouldn’t be the only accepting flow backs. PSA and Piedmont would have to be in the same boat for a flow back to happen.

Oh yeah, of course. But I don't think anyone really would call that "flowback" though. And I have NO problem with the idea of them having guaranteed jobs here, like that, if they furloughed. That said, if they're furloughing, so are we so I don't see the point.

Yes, true. There are three. But it's not really relevant. Each regional union mec would need to approve a flowback to their own outfit, but not really all three, which would be REALLY stupid to do in the current situation.

Keep in mind, if anyone approves flowback and AA furloughs, any regional that has flowback will have screwed over its own pilots. I can see an agreement being pulled off in the situation we were in a month ago when we thought hiring was going to go on like gangbusters for a decade plus and WO regionals would need a carrot to hang on to captains. Today though? It's suicide.

An agreement to hire them at the bottom of the list would be pointless. If AA is furloughing then envoy is overstaffed as well. Would an AA pilot really want to come sit airport standby every day with 7-8 days at home as a commuter? I'd rather get a job at Walmart if I were them. Or you know, save some of that pay for an emergency fund.

If I recall correctly (because I heard this from some 10 yr capt who I flew with as an FO), something like this happened to TWA guys. They did, indeed, sit standby for awhile. One was said to commute into LGA, go into the sleep room, and emerge several days later having never been used. So, whether all this is true or not, don't underestimate what guys will put up with to keep bread on the table.

I’d rather sit stby at Envoy than being furloughed.

speak for yourself.

Not even for a new flow agreement supported by APA, ALPA, AAG to include: WO pilots issued AA seniority # by WO DOH, then DOB for overlaps. Increased flow guarantees such as WO will now make up 75-80% of new AA classes when the music resumes.

I can see the bandwagon now for Flowbacks come Oct 1st. Plenty of time to marinate the idea, let it sink in. Will prevent vertical movement to LLCs/ULLCs with higher margins when the music resumes.


As it stands, the flow has weakened for years to come.