Your pay went up 43% and yet it still was way below what the non union Flexjet guys were making. Not a great claim for what Teamsters has done for you.

If you remember 2009 there was the Geat Recession and we had 200 pilots on furlough. Getting a 43% pay raise and having work rules was a big plus over what Kenn wanted to pay us. Flex paid up right away to avoid the union when the Netjets union raised the bar for ALL the Fractional pilots in terms of wages and benefits.

The fear of being called into the office to explain why you wrote up an airplane for “just a fuel leak” or “ just a worn tire” when you still had trips assigned to the aircraft, those things went away with the Teamsters and contract. As well as the 14+ Hour duty days and floating duty days. Lets not forget the slide to poverty pay system where with every up grade you slide back to year 1 pay rate.
That is why keeping a union is important to keep from going back to those bad old days.

Actually, what it really is, is an indication of how badly the management who has taken over Flexjet treated their pilots without a union. Remember, first contracts are mostly the rules in place, written and enforceable. So Flops (now Flexjet’s) management treated their pilots like garbage. And you want to get rid of the union so they can do that again? No Franks!

This!!!!!

The same person that told you that there will be no changes at Flexjet and that we will be taking the best practices from both companies was in charge during the final two years of negotiating. The same person that said give me a chance and more time!!!!! If we all stood together we would have a NJ or better contract in a heartbeat!!!!!!

The same rhetoric about the economy in 2008. You all had a choice, you could have said screw you to the company and voted down a very subpar contract. There really is life outside of aviation, if I were treated like that with carpet dances for write ups from the start I would have left and done something else until a better aviation job came along. You could have been selling iPhones at AT&T and made the same compensation as those atrocious pay scales you voted in.

Dutch, nice play on words there. Are we going to pretend that the IBT didn't lie too? What happened to the we won't put you under the same terrible CBA as flops? You can hate on RH all you want, but the union still won't answer that question. It comes down to money.

Clearly you haven’t read the contract. Flexjet pilots are not anywhere near “under the Flops” contract. We did not lose our payscales. In fact, we get back the year of seniority lost in upgrade. We get over time pay, not just for reports before 5am on day one, but for pre 6am reports! We keep our bidding and work rules! The flight attendants, on the other hand, have been forced onto only 7 or 8 day rotations! Oh they still have “Flexbid”, just without any choices other than 7 or 8 days! So don’t delude yourself, management has nothing good planned for the vast majority of us! Remember, LESS THAN 1/3 OF US ARE RED LABEL!! MORE THAN 2/3 OF US ARE DELIBERATELY SHUT OUT OF THE PROGRAM BY MANAGEMENT!! We are one decert vote away from hell on earth. No Franks!!

It seems pretty obvious from your posts, Hershey, that you are not a supporter of unions, and that is totally cool as each to his or her own.

But it seems that you don't understand that the Union is really there for you more in bad times than in good times. Having been ALPA, IBT, In House, and unrepresented as a pilot, I would take a job with representation for less money than a better paying one with no representation. Why? Because when the chips are down is really when the union becomes important and, hilariously, the most ardent anti-union pilots are the first to run to the union for help when they bust an altitude, have a medical or family issue, a problem with management, etc.

For example, when my 121 carrier went Chapter 11 in 2007, like so many others in 2007-2009, ALPA went after the Company like a rabid dog and roughly 150 pilots shared just under 1 Million to account for WARN Act violations, out of seniority flying, and back pay. Our pilots were the only group to receive a pre-Chapter 11 closing settlement because we were the only group represented. That's because were were the only group that chose to organize, despite various organizing failures by the mechanics and dispatchers. That 5 figure settlement saved my family from a hellish 2008 when I searched in vain for flying jobs that no longer existed. Contrast that to how XOJET and, I believe Flexjet initially, treated their pilots when the economy tanked. XOJET pilots were greeted by security at outstations at the end of their trips to retrieve their ID Badges and other company property. They were terminated, not furloughed 2 weeks before Christmas with no notice and no severance. Furthermore, when pilots flying on trips began to hear of the bloodbath of the terminations (23 out of 122 pilots), and the pilots called in to make sure they weren't fired too... the company simply lied to several of them. Yeah, buddy, everything is just fine.. you just keep flying our pax for those 2 more legs today. Merry Effing Christmas to you from XOJET. Guess what? For the rest of their career, they have to check TERMINATED on online applications that can be filtered out for accident/incident/termination/2 year degree/4 year degree/etc., because they were terminated, not furloughed in reverse seniority order. And if they make it past that online termination filter and actually get to talk to a real HR person, they get to explain why they were terminated to an airline HR person that is used to dealing with 121 furloughees, not terminated pilots of 91K/135 scumbag companies. "So, since companies only terminate for cause, why were you really fired?"

Flexjet pilots did not fare much better. The first group of pilots were terminated as well. Finally, after outcry, the company offered them a severance package and considered them furloughees. But guess what? When they returned, they were greeted with first year pay. Don't those pilots wish that they had a nice contract that clearly spelled out furlough and recall by seniority, and accrued seniority pay while on furlough. The true character of a company can be seen much more in bad times than good times. When we would run into the Flex pilots on the road, many of them commented that they were just happy that it wasn't them. Lining up like sheep to be next at the chopping block is not the way to protect your career and you livelyhood. Organize when times are good, because remember that these ARE the good old days.

Flight Options pilots might not have been paid as well, but none of them have terminations on their record just because they didn't have a contract and the company had no written furlough policy. Pay is important, but not as important as career protection. When things go south, Union pilots fare much better than unrepresented ones.

Good post 727, however, I have been a member of ALPA in a previous 121 life and was always a member in good standing. I fully understand how they work and why they are there. I don't agree with the IBT's tactics. I also have never seen any member of a professional airline walking around with goatees and beards and with uniforms in such disarray as I have with the Flops guys. You want to be taken seriously and treated like a professional, then act and dress that way at work and with dealing with co-workers.

Not all are like this, but there are definitely enough that I seem to run into them every rotation. When the IBT has to create 3 different bullet points saying the same thing with different verbiage under their "What did Flexjet pilots gain" then you know there isn't much else to say and they need more filler since the majority of the gains were on the Options side. I'm anti IBT, not unions.

So Hershey join up and help raise the whole boat!! You said you don't like the way IBT does things. Well we are all volunteers and would welcome the help. I am sure your expertise would be beneficial!!!

I can’t take anyone seriously who uses that many exclamation points in every post.