Why should it be? Aren't you supposed to know about that stuff before you even get to a regional airline in general?

Got a feeling not many 172 drivers know much about braking action reports. And it would seem to me that’s exactly the kind of thing you’d be talking about in upgrade - the stuff that gets senior airline crews into accidents.


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I am a little shocked that someone flying as a captain for a regional doesn’t know what TALPA is.

The Tropical Air Line Pilots Association?

That is when we move the 700’s to Hawaii and restart Go. Of course, the 700’s aren’t complaint with ADS-B.

And herein lies the problem.

After Colgan 3407, the question everyone was asking was, 'are there two levels of safety allowed by the FAA - one level for majors, and one for regionals?' Anyone who's flown for certain regionals can easily attest to the two levels.

Mesa's upgrade - at least on the CRJ side - should last longer and cover a lot more details. As it is now, they push you through as fast as they can get away with. When a typical FO upgrades at a major/legacy, they have a lot more hours than an FO upgrading at a regional. A LOT more - in most cases.

So why do we make blanket statements like the one above, blaming the pilot's possible ignorance, and not the system? Face it - the system sucks. We have AA or UA plastered all over our fuselage, so based solely on optics - we are AA or UA. Wouldn't it behoove either of these legacies to spend time and effort making sure our training department isn't so anemic that they ignore critical subjects during initial, recurrent AQP, and upgrade?

To put it bluntly, they're saving a king's ransom by paying us peanuts when we perform the exact same job - in the exact same conditions - as their own legacy pilots? Don't try telling me they can't afford this.

This incident in COU (which I'll admit I know very little about) probably had the potential to be a lot worse than it was. Given the platform of social media nowadays, the images of badly-damaged aircraft (and an evacuation in heavy snow and ice) would have sprouted legs and run on its own. All preventable, of course, if they would just invest in training a cadre of (regional) pilots whose experience pales in comparison to an upgrading legacy pilot. Yes, I realize Southwest has skated off of a couple of runways in the past month or so - but I don't think either of them ignored a PIREP that said braking was 'nil.'

I've sat in both the left and right seat throughout my career. I've seen the weak links pass training time and again. I've heard the excuses from various training departments as to why they keep passing individuals who have no business in a cockpit. I've watched management lie through their teeth after an accident with fatalities.

Colgan will happen again - it's just a matter of time

Seriously do you people read? The runway was worked on after the braking action report then it was tested.

Swa and United since with basically the same issue.

Tests after on the swa showed bad braking action. Listen to the recording.

United mainline did it last night in Chicago.

I understand your argument and agree partially training can always be better. Mesa does exactly what is required by law to train it's pilots. They check every box that the FAA says it has to check. I am a commuter have been for the last 5 years. I've jumpseated on united where a captain was politely schooling a veteran first officer, American where it took them a "minute" to figure out the landing distance because their acars was out for while it did come back because they were struggling, PSA two guys could not figure out why they could land in MHT after it snowed because captain forgot to put in reverse credit I suggested it to him twice and admitted he was a force upgrade not really ready. Fedex and UPS where I have talked to a lot of their pilots and they sat training is focused and intense BUT as long as you study there and address your own weakness they give you all the help you need plus some there are really no ball busters there and you almost have to try to fail out. I have to give credit to our training department. Our Sim instructors work hard and really are trying to get the most success out of people. Mesa is starting to selective. But they are really working hard with people. Mesa provides the required training it's our responsibility to keep growing in our career

I can’t remeber the instructor I had but we talked about TALPA at length in AQP last year. I’m not sure if it was his own point of emphasis or the training departments.

The FAA should get involved in the forced upgrades at other companies, it’s definitely a safety issue.