SkyWest ?’s
02-15-2023 | 06:03 PM
#4951
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,527
Likes: 270
From: Guppy Gear Slinger
Yup, and the imbalance is the same as it was before the forced upgrades began. So what has this disaster of a policy achieved? Let's see... Ah yes. Precisely nothing, aside from encourage more people to update their apps.
02-15-2023 | 06:51 PM
#4952
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
02-15-2023 | 07:35 PM
#4953
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,429
Likes: 14
02-15-2023 | 08:02 PM
#4954
Perennial Reserve
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 14,081
Likes: 182
And under present conditions, if senior FOs aren’t going to upgrade, the company is better off encouraging those high time FOs to leave. They have lots of applicants waiting who will be happy to have those SIC hours, even on first or second year pay.
02-16-2023 | 07:31 AM
#4956
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2022
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
If the FOs woukdn’t upgrade they were part of the problem. They were sucking up the limited SIC hours available to keep others who WERE willing to upgrade from accumulating the 1000 hours of SIC necessary to upgrade.
Apparently not, since managements generally ALWAYS go for the cheapest alternative.
1. So you want them to violate other CA pilots seniority to keep you at a base? Or just stack CAs at a base where they aren’t needed?
2. Longevity match with what? How many different regionals have your senior FOs been employed at?
3.I am reasonably sure that you actually get paid during upgrade training. And the pay raise from making CA is non-trivial.
It would be acceptable if they were balanced by lifer CAs, but the vast majority of CAs prefer to move on to someplace that pays better and has more benefits.
Doesn’t matter how smart they are, they cannot change the CA requirements mandated under § 121.436, and slavery and indentured servitude were outlawed by the 13th amendment. Most CAs are GOING TO leave for a major eventually, barring exceptional personal circumstances or so close to mandatory requirement it doesn’t matter.
If they DON’T mandate updates they will be out of business before that. They can replace FOs with 2000 hrs of 121 time with brand new guys right off IOE. If the high time FOs aren’t going to upgrade, there is little reason to keep them. That’s attrition they NEED to have.
Apparently not, since managements generally ALWAYS go for the cheapest alternative.
1. So you want them to violate other CA pilots seniority to keep you at a base? Or just stack CAs at a base where they aren’t needed?
2. Longevity match with what? How many different regionals have your senior FOs been employed at?
3.I am reasonably sure that you actually get paid during upgrade training. And the pay raise from making CA is non-trivial.
It would be acceptable if they were balanced by lifer CAs, but the vast majority of CAs prefer to move on to someplace that pays better and has more benefits.
Doesn’t matter how smart they are, they cannot change the CA requirements mandated under § 121.436, and slavery and indentured servitude were outlawed by the 13th amendment. Most CAs are GOING TO leave for a major eventually, barring exceptional personal circumstances or so close to mandatory requirement it doesn’t matter.
If they DON’T mandate updates they will be out of business before that. They can replace FOs with 2000 hrs of 121 time with brand new guys right off IOE. If the high time FOs aren’t going to upgrade, there is little reason to keep them. That’s attrition they NEED to have.
02-16-2023 | 08:10 AM
#4957
Porco Rosso
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,522
Likes: 0
My point is instead of mandating something many FOs don't seem to want is to figure out why they don't want it and offer incentives to make them want it. Given there is a substantial pay increase, the money does not seem to be cure. But you first have to figure out what the issues with upgrading are and then how to correct that. It will not be the same for everyone and that is why you may have to offer different alternatives. The point on training is I know the training is paid. But it seems there are some folks that are concerned about the training fearing reported failure. If that is the truly the case for many, those expressing this as a reason for not upgrading could opt to receive additional training to increase their confidence for success. It is a complex problem which requires a complex solution, but for those that are longtime FOs (i.e., for some reason don't like change), if you can successfully get them to upgrade, do they become longtime CAs? Which helps alleviate the problem in the long run.
It sucks for the FOs currently on property or in the pipeline at the 121 operation, but it's a problem that SGU is currently solving outside OO.
02-16-2023 | 10:53 AM
#4958
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 4,083
Likes: 0
From: CRJ9 CA
If the FOs woukdn’t upgrade they were part of the problem. They were sucking up the limited SIC hours available to keep others who WERE willing to upgrade from accumulating the 1000 hours of SIC necessary to upgrade.
Apparently not, since managements generally ALWAYS go for the cheapest alternative.
1. So you want them to violate other CA pilots seniority to keep you at a base? Or just stack CAs at a base where they aren’t needed?
2. Longevity match with what? How many different regionals have your senior FOs been employed at?
3.I am reasonably sure that you actually get paid during upgrade training. And the pay raise from making CA is non-trivial.
It would be acceptable if they were balanced by lifer CAs, but the vast majority of CAs prefer to move on to someplace that pays better and has more benefits.
Doesn’t matter how smart they are, they cannot change the CA requirements mandated under § 121.436, and slavery and indentured servitude were outlawed by the 13th amendment. Most CAs are GOING TO leave for a major eventually, barring exceptional personal circumstances or so close to mandatory requirement it doesn’t matter.
If they DON’T mandate updates they will be out of business before that. They can replace FOs with 2000 hrs of 121 time with brand new guys right off IOE. If the high time FOs aren’t going to upgrade, there is little reason to keep them. That’s attrition they NEED to have.
Apparently not, since managements generally ALWAYS go for the cheapest alternative.
1. So you want them to violate other CA pilots seniority to keep you at a base? Or just stack CAs at a base where they aren’t needed?
2. Longevity match with what? How many different regionals have your senior FOs been employed at?
3.I am reasonably sure that you actually get paid during upgrade training. And the pay raise from making CA is non-trivial.
It would be acceptable if they were balanced by lifer CAs, but the vast majority of CAs prefer to move on to someplace that pays better and has more benefits.
Doesn’t matter how smart they are, they cannot change the CA requirements mandated under § 121.436, and slavery and indentured servitude were outlawed by the 13th amendment. Most CAs are GOING TO leave for a major eventually, barring exceptional personal circumstances or so close to mandatory requirement it doesn’t matter.
If they DON’T mandate updates they will be out of business before that. They can replace FOs with 2000 hrs of 121 time with brand new guys right off IOE. If the high time FOs aren’t going to upgrade, there is little reason to keep them. That’s attrition they NEED to have.
02-16-2023 | 12:04 PM
#4959
Perennial Reserve
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 14,081
Likes: 182
a. Is cheaper
b. May eventually be willing to stay and become a CA since their seniority path is no longer clogged with dead wood.
c. And right now is waiting for an intro class that is getting slid farther and farther into the future because of that dead wood.
I think most high time FOs looking for sympathy because they are being forced ‘up or out’ as they say in the military are going to find that they are pumping at a dry well…
02-17-2023 | 05:16 AM
#4960
Reserve Without End
Joined: Feb 2022
Posts: 243
Likes: 17
I left to a Sunnier destination over forced upgrades. I didn’t want to commute to reserve when my wife and I want to have kids in the next year or two. I was looking forward to upgrade at Skywest, but they forced my hand on it.
Does it help my base was shrinking and that Delta wants to kill the CRJ in a similar way that I want to kill the spider in my basement? No. There were external factors outside of the control at Skywest at play.
But I do know now that Skywest is seeing attrition of very junior FOs too because they aren’t flying. I spoke with a man a week ago who was in for an interview and he’d flown 2 hours in the last month on reserve. Shocker. People want to fly.
Does it help my base was shrinking and that Delta wants to kill the CRJ in a similar way that I want to kill the spider in my basement? No. There were external factors outside of the control at Skywest at play.
But I do know now that Skywest is seeing attrition of very junior FOs too because they aren’t flying. I spoke with a man a week ago who was in for an interview and he’d flown 2 hours in the last month on reserve. Shocker. People want to fly.
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