Skywest
08-21-2015, 01:34 PM
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Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: N88301
Posts: 228
Originally Posted by disillusioned
From the Republic thread. I wanted to move it over here since it didn't have anything to do with Republic but I wanted to point out the violation of seniority of PBS.
For years I have had trips that I should be able to hold that go to Jr pilots. On the SAPA forums there seems to be a lot of confusion over the "removed/replaced due to line constraints"
I can hold a 3 day trip or 4 day with 30 hr layover with 22 hours credit. But PBS can only give me 83 hours and based on what senior pilots bid, I need 86 hours. PBS will drop my trip that I could have held and award me another trip on a lower layer that will give me an additional 3 hours. The junior pilot gets the trip I wanted because by the time it gets down to them, PBS is only requiring 83 hours or less.
While I agree reflow is a horrible idea (and one that SAPA seems intent on passing) each month we have seniority violated with PBS. Why do you think the bids are not published? Nobody knows how to find out who is flying a trip via the flow board or other ways? It has nothing to do with privacy and everything to do with transparency. We have no idea how many hours PBS is going to need but since it globalizes, we have to guess what the other pilots ahead of us will do. We are assigned crappier trips from lower layers and junior pilots get to fly the trips we should have been able to hold.
So the question was "What is the point of bidding if the company can just reflow you to a different trip?" Yeah that will be a huge hit to QOL, but we are already not getting the trips awarded to us because we have no oversight into PBS. And yes I have talked to SAPA about this and even our PBS SAPA rep. Nobody cares that this is happening every month.
For years I have had trips that I should be able to hold that go to Jr pilots. On the SAPA forums there seems to be a lot of confusion over the "removed/replaced due to line constraints"
I can hold a 3 day trip or 4 day with 30 hr layover with 22 hours credit. But PBS can only give me 83 hours and based on what senior pilots bid, I need 86 hours. PBS will drop my trip that I could have held and award me another trip on a lower layer that will give me an additional 3 hours. The junior pilot gets the trip I wanted because by the time it gets down to them, PBS is only requiring 83 hours or less.
While I agree reflow is a horrible idea (and one that SAPA seems intent on passing) each month we have seniority violated with PBS. Why do you think the bids are not published? Nobody knows how to find out who is flying a trip via the flow board or other ways? It has nothing to do with privacy and everything to do with transparency. We have no idea how many hours PBS is going to need but since it globalizes, we have to guess what the other pilots ahead of us will do. We are assigned crappier trips from lower layers and junior pilots get to fly the trips we should have been able to hold.
So the question was "What is the point of bidding if the company can just reflow you to a different trip?" Yeah that will be a huge hit to QOL, but we are already not getting the trips awarded to us because we have no oversight into PBS. And yes I have talked to SAPA about this and even our PBS SAPA rep. Nobody cares that this is happening every month.
Educate yourself. Reflow 1-2-3.
PBS sucks. That's no mystery. Seniority violations have been happening since Day 1. But for those that get what they bid for, most of us, being reflowed off a good overnight sucks worse than PBS. Especially considering what was awarded is being taken away.
And at the very least, since PBS isn't going to change, we need to protect ourselves from any reflow policy as do Republic pilots with their LBFO. Hence the post in that thread.
.
Last edited by WhoCares; 08-21-2015 at 01:54 PM. Reason: Edit the reason.
08-21-2015, 02:47 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by porkins89
Anyone who recently interviewed know if they are interested in you reporting 141 stage checks?
08-21-2015, 02:58 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 101
Originally Posted by fugoid
I can confirm they are and will ask you about it
08-21-2015, 03:08 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Posts: 613
Originally Posted by WhoCares
It had everything to do with Republic and that's exactly why I posted it there. You have taken it out of context and made it into something it wasn't.
Educate yourself. Reflow 1-2-3.
PBS sucks. That's no mystery. Seniority violations have been happening since Day 1. But for those that get what they bid for, most of us, being reflowed off a good overnight sucks worse than PBS. Especially considering what was awarded is being taken away.
And at the very least, since PBS isn't going to change, we need to protect ourselves from any reflow policy as do Republic pilots with their LBFO. Hence the post in that thread.
Educate yourself. Reflow 1-2-3.
PBS sucks. That's no mystery. Seniority violations have been happening since Day 1. But for those that get what they bid for, most of us, being reflowed off a good overnight sucks worse than PBS. Especially considering what was awarded is being taken away.
And at the very least, since PBS isn't going to change, we need to protect ourselves from any reflow policy as do Republic pilots with their LBFO. Hence the post in that thread.
We are on the same page and I just wanted to bring up the PBS myth again. Probably because I just had another month where I lost all my upper layer trips and got all the crap from Layer 6 so that PBS could give me 1 more hour.
Reflow will kill whatever QOL we have left. SAPA is telling everyone that we just need to accept it's going to happen, and we should get an hour or two and be happy. So instead of using reserves, we can all just be reserves. Don't want to pay me to do a round trip on a 4 hour sit? I got an idea, don't f'ing schedule a 4 hour sit in another base. You know why we have so many 4 hour sits? Because it costs the company $7 to have you sit. That is a cheap reserve.
So if I play the PBS game and happen to actually get a trip my seniority can hold (rare but it does happen), it's good to know that now instead of my overnight in AUS, I can be reflowed to ELP. Same thing right? They are both in Texas. And if my overnight goes from 18 hours to 10, that is the same thing right? Because now, I can get reflowed to another base like IAH and sit around there for $7 because we have yet to figure out how to staff an airline. Oh, but now that we raised first year pay to $30, we are going to hire like crazy so it's okay.
Sorry I am just way bitter that we had the summer $hit-show and I actually got my hopes up that things would get better with the block hour reduction. It's time to realize that their isn't any light at the end of the tunnel. Thanks for listening.
08-21-2015, 08:47 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 2,035
Originally Posted by disillusioned
From the Republic thread. I wanted to move it over here since it didn't have anything to do with Republic but I wanted to point out the violation of seniority of PBS.
For years I have had trips that I should be able to hold that go to Jr pilots. On the SAPA forums there seems to be a lot of confusion over the "removed/replaced due to line constraints"
I can hold a 3 day trip or 4 day with 30 hr layover with 22 hours credit. But PBS can only give me 83 hours and based on what senior pilots bid, I need 86 hours. PBS will drop my trip that I could have held and award me another trip on a lower layer that will give me an additional 3 hours. The junior pilot gets the trip I wanted because by the time it gets down to them, PBS is only requiring 83 hours or less.
While I agree reflow is a horrible idea (and one that SAPA seems intent on passing) each month we have seniority violated with PBS. Why do you think the bids are not published? Nobody knows how to find out who is flying a trip via the flow board or other ways? It has nothing to do with privacy and everything to do with transparency. We have no idea how many hours PBS is going to need but since it globalizes, we have to guess what the other pilots ahead of us will do. We are assigned crappier trips from lower layers and junior pilots get to fly the trips we should have been able to hold.
So the question was "What is the point of bidding if the company can just reflow you to a different trip?" Yeah that will be a huge hit to QOL, but we are already not getting the trips awarded to us because we have no oversight into PBS. And yes I have talked to SAPA about this and even our PBS SAPA rep. Nobody cares that this is happening every month.
For years I have had trips that I should be able to hold that go to Jr pilots. On the SAPA forums there seems to be a lot of confusion over the "removed/replaced due to line constraints"
I can hold a 3 day trip or 4 day with 30 hr layover with 22 hours credit. But PBS can only give me 83 hours and based on what senior pilots bid, I need 86 hours. PBS will drop my trip that I could have held and award me another trip on a lower layer that will give me an additional 3 hours. The junior pilot gets the trip I wanted because by the time it gets down to them, PBS is only requiring 83 hours or less.
While I agree reflow is a horrible idea (and one that SAPA seems intent on passing) each month we have seniority violated with PBS. Why do you think the bids are not published? Nobody knows how to find out who is flying a trip via the flow board or other ways? It has nothing to do with privacy and everything to do with transparency. We have no idea how many hours PBS is going to need but since it globalizes, we have to guess what the other pilots ahead of us will do. We are assigned crappier trips from lower layers and junior pilots get to fly the trips we should have been able to hold.
So the question was "What is the point of bidding if the company can just reflow you to a different trip?" Yeah that will be a huge hit to QOL, but we are already not getting the trips awarded to us because we have no oversight into PBS. And yes I have talked to SAPA about this and even our PBS SAPA rep. Nobody cares that this is happening every month.
Right there with ya!
08-22-2015, 11:33 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 1,154
Originally Posted by disillusioned
Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant that my reply didn't belong in the Republic thread and so I moved it over here to the SW one.
We are on the same page and I just wanted to bring up the PBS myth again. Probably because I just had another month where I lost all my upper layer trips and got all the crap from Layer 6 so that PBS could give me 1 more hour.
Reflow will kill whatever QOL we have left. SAPA is telling everyone that we just need to accept it's going to happen, and we should get an hour or two and be happy. So instead of using reserves, we can all just be reserves. Don't want to pay me to do a round trip on a 4 hour sit? I got an idea, don't f'ing schedule a 4 hour sit in another base. You know why we have so many 4 hour sits? Because it costs the company $7 to have you sit. That is a cheap reserve.
So if I play the PBS game and happen to actually get a trip my seniority can hold (rare but it does happen), it's good to know that now instead of my overnight in AUS, I can be reflowed to ELP. Same thing right? They are both in Texas. And if my overnight goes from 18 hours to 10, that is the same thing right? Because now, I can get reflowed to another base like IAH and sit around there for $7 because we have yet to figure out how to staff an airline. Oh, but now that we raised first year pay to $30, we are going to hire like crazy so it's okay.
Sorry I am just way bitter that we had the summer $hit-show and I actually got my hopes up that things would get better with the block hour reduction. It's time to realize that their isn't any light at the end of the tunnel. Thanks for listening.
We are on the same page and I just wanted to bring up the PBS myth again. Probably because I just had another month where I lost all my upper layer trips and got all the crap from Layer 6 so that PBS could give me 1 more hour.
Reflow will kill whatever QOL we have left. SAPA is telling everyone that we just need to accept it's going to happen, and we should get an hour or two and be happy. So instead of using reserves, we can all just be reserves. Don't want to pay me to do a round trip on a 4 hour sit? I got an idea, don't f'ing schedule a 4 hour sit in another base. You know why we have so many 4 hour sits? Because it costs the company $7 to have you sit. That is a cheap reserve.
So if I play the PBS game and happen to actually get a trip my seniority can hold (rare but it does happen), it's good to know that now instead of my overnight in AUS, I can be reflowed to ELP. Same thing right? They are both in Texas. And if my overnight goes from 18 hours to 10, that is the same thing right? Because now, I can get reflowed to another base like IAH and sit around there for $7 because we have yet to figure out how to staff an airline. Oh, but now that we raised first year pay to $30, we are going to hire like crazy so it's okay.
Sorry I am just way bitter that we had the summer $hit-show and I actually got my hopes up that things would get better with the block hour reduction. It's time to realize that their isn't any light at the end of the tunnel. Thanks for listening.
#dumbdumbdumb
08-22-2015, 12:39 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 40
Originally Posted by FaceBiter
Reflow via EFB is a terrible idea unless it's so financially slanted in our favor that we want it to happen and/or voluntary.
08-22-2015, 01:55 PM
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
Skywest
Originally Posted by 121 gigawatts
Are they still talking EFB's?
Yeah, they are really nice!
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08-22-2015, 02:02 PM
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 803
Originally Posted by 121 gigawatts
Are they still talking EFB's?
I'm putting my concern with the EFB's on the back burner for the moment.
Apparently TG wants the clock to start with wheel movement and SAPA is listening to the company, like they always do.
If this happens, we are giving back at least 5% of the industry misleading TA we just got!
08-22-2015, 02:05 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 1,154
Originally Posted by Check Complete
I'm putting my concern with the EFB's on the back burner for the moment.
Apparently TG wants the clock to start with wheel movement and SAPA is listening to the company, like they always do.
If this happens, we are giving back at least 5% of the industry misleading TA we just got!
Apparently TG wants the clock to start with wheel movement and SAPA is listening to the company, like they always do.
If this happens, we are giving back at least 5% of the industry misleading TA we just got!
Edit-just found it. For more see MM comments on sapa. It looks like that's for block calculations only and not pay.
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