HermannGraf

I voted no and believe people would see clearly that the offer was no stagnation and even less a plus in any way. There was a lot of scare propaganda like "look what happened to Endevour and PSA", "Eagle will for sure vote yes" people said and the company was smart and used SAPA after they got SAPA exactly where they wanted. The making it a 1 year thing was a brilliant move from their part, that got a lot of yes votes and actually now when we start the negotiations we start from a lower point than before the vote. They "management" knew we had tons of leverage. We need professional negotiators that can't be used by the company to sell the pilot group a dish and that can see through Managements brilliant moves.

buddies8

Very, very true. From a pilot of a wholly owned. Full frank is correct.

JustAMushroom

When i read your posts I don't know if should laugh or hit my head against a wall when.

No one wants what your selling. No one is trying to get in your s#!tty disco so fire the bouncer. Haven't you figured out that if a viable alternate between ALPA and nonUnion was available
Most pilots would go in a heart beat. Including the pilots at SkyWest. Your sophomoric language is offensive and counter productive and your vision of utopia is quickly being over run by your own inability to adapt and overcome. The communication between management, pilot reps and line pilots is part of the secret sauce. We've never said it couldn't be better but it's good. That's not why pilots voted for the status quo.
Your self appointed arbiter of righteousness has lost its luster.

andreas500

The difference in starting point is not that big of a deal - the key is to have focus, alignment, and solidarity / unity on the endpoint - do not accept an offer without very hard and serious negotiation on all key items of contract, using the leverage that will continue to build over the next numerous years. This is one chapter, and a short one, the story will truly be told within the next several chapters.

Nevets

I'm speaking from experience of working in the pilot profession at a non-union company and then a union company. All I can say is that you don't know what you don't know. There is a reason why management pays MILLIONS to F&H. And I it's not for the pilots benefit. Part of me doesn't blame you because, like I said, you don't know what you don't know. But an increasing part me does because we now live in the day and age of social media. So you should know better.

Go ahead and make me out to be the person who is trying to keep you down. I may not be the best spokesperson for what I'm saying but that doesn't mean that it is not what is in the best interest for our profession. Using me as an excuse just makes it worse.

Wake up

Yes but without a union, you have very little chance of any of that. You need an independent entity to vet what management says at the table, before any negotiations begin. You need independent analysis of items being negotiated and their costing. You need independent attorneys and negotiators to help you achieve as much as you can at the negotiating table. And I can go on and on. None of this happens without a union. That's not to say that unions are the end all be all. You also need good leadership, which I'm sure you have within your ranks. But without the tool that being a union gives you, your leadership can do very little.

NVUS

Nevets - Union - Bitter
JustAMushroom - Non-union - Happy

End of Discussion

Waitingformins

That’s so cheap, nonunion pay scales come off the backs of union pay scales don’t be stupid.

CanoeBum

Example ASA contract 07 Skywest had an inclusion clause to give them what we negotiated. How many Skywest pilots paid dues to ALPA for that? I really am happy for you guys just don't think for a minute you did it all without union help.

Stinsat7

If that's so, why didn't we follow the union pay scales down when ALPA regionals had their orgy of concessions last year?

ross9238

Are you saying that the union is the independent source that tells you that you have a concessionary TA?? I didn't hear any of them say it is concessionary but rather that it was still industry leading.