Skywest v2.0
06-07-2017, 04:31 PM
#7601
Ich bin Pilot von Beruf
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: CRJ Kapitän
Posts: 616
Originally Posted by hawk21
I can personally tell you from my perspective (tons of friends still in flight school, finishing up hours instructing, etc) that SkyWest is starting to lose its draw. Everyone is flooding to Envoy for the bonuses and flow. Yes we're filling classes now but at this rate that's gonna start trickling down.
06-07-2017, 04:41 PM
#7602
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Position: LAX ER
Posts: 1,606
Originally Posted by JKSees
Funny how just a few pages back I essentially made this same point about a pending retention problem if they don't make some changes. AND GOT HAMMERED FOR IT. My class of new FO's was looking at their minimum wage pay check while sitting reserve in ORD, away from home, in a bucket +24 over (i.e your never gonna get called), with Crew Support unwilling to let them sit reserve in LAX/SFO/SEA with -reserves. So lets see, minimum wage, not flying (i.e. not making any progress towards getting out of here), and sitting away from home with NO reason to be doing so. The word will get out eventually.
Sorry bud, try again. If you wanted a line and to do the grind you'd be in Detroit right now on the CRJ flying 90hrs a month just like the rest of the guys on the grind. You just came into here with your entitlement saying you wanna go to Horizon. Good luck with your upgrade times. Let me just warn you to DO YOUR RESEARCH.
Otherwise you will get hammered....again.
And minimum wage? Jesus man. Seriously?
06-07-2017, 05:40 PM
#7603
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,405
Originally Posted by Voski
I'm an Army pilot that will be leaving active service in a little more than a year for the airlines. Case-in-point, I was and still am attracted to SkyWest because of their reputation and the fact that they seem like they're one of the few regionals that have a future in the industry.
However, reputation, base options, and owning your own airplanes can only get you so far in this hiring environment when you've got companies like Endeavor, Envoy, PSA, and Piedmont all making compelling options. I can make roughly twice as much income my first two years at one of the wholly-owned carriers to ease the pay cut of leaving the military and ease the burden of first officer pay scales. Plus, a company like PSA has SAP as a line holder meaning preferential scheduling; my friends at SkyWest keep telling me how they're maxed out. Even though the airlines with flow-through agreements are more or less a gimmick in my book, it's still an insurance policy that tips the already unbalanced scales even further away from SkyWest. Right now, it's a no-brainer move for my family.
I'm hoping SkyWest can offer more incentives to attract more pilots, but a differential pay of ~$40,000+ over two years by going elsewhere is a deal breaker.
However, reputation, base options, and owning your own airplanes can only get you so far in this hiring environment when you've got companies like Endeavor, Envoy, PSA, and Piedmont all making compelling options. I can make roughly twice as much income my first two years at one of the wholly-owned carriers to ease the pay cut of leaving the military and ease the burden of first officer pay scales. Plus, a company like PSA has SAP as a line holder meaning preferential scheduling; my friends at SkyWest keep telling me how they're maxed out. Even though the airlines with flow-through agreements are more or less a gimmick in my book, it's still an insurance policy that tips the already unbalanced scales even further away from SkyWest. Right now, it's a no-brainer move for my family.
I'm hoping SkyWest can offer more incentives to attract more pilots, but a differential pay of ~$40,000+ over two years by going elsewhere is a deal breaker.
06-07-2017, 06:39 PM
#7604
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,111
Originally Posted by invalidPairing
If you're really considering Envoy, have a chat with someone that has been there a few years. Envoy pilots have arguably the worst relationship with management compared to any pilot group right now. Look at the volatility of their bases and how they're treated by management.
Having a good relationship with management doesn't pay the bills. Money in your pocket does.
06-08-2017, 04:48 AM
#7605
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jun 2016
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by hawk21
Having a good relationship with management doesn't pay the bills. Money in your pocket does.
06-08-2017, 04:54 AM
#7606
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jun 2016
Posts: 20
Here's a brief history lesson of "money paying the bills" at Envoy.
Early 2011 - American Eagle is taking delivery of 27 CRJ 700s. New hires are totaling 40-50 per month.
Aug 2011 - Captain upgrade time drops from almost 10 years in 2010 to 4. If everything stayed the same, it would drop to around 3 in just under a year.
Sep 2011 - American Eagle has over 3400 pilots on its seniority list.
Oct 2011 - AMR files for bankruptcy. Hiring immediately stops and 76 new hires are furloughed.
Apr 2012 - American Eagle closes SJU base.
May 2012 – American Eagle pilots begin bankruptcy negotiations for a new concessionary contract that would include a new sweet fleet plan.
Aug 2012 - AA and US Airways begin talks
Sep 2012 - American Eagle closes LAX base
Sep 2012 - SkyWest given contract to operate 23 CRJ-200s out of LAX
Oct 2012 – American Eagle pilots approve concessionary bankruptcy contract with the sweet fleet plan language removed and changed to a gentleman’s agreement
Nov 2012 – 3,141 pilots on envoy seniority list
Jan 2013 - Republic granted 47 EMB 175s with an additional 47 options. Envoy pilots receive 0 aircraft in exchange for their bankruptcy concessions
Feb 2013 - AA and US Airways begin formal merger
Feb 2013 - ExpresJet begins operating CRJs from DFW
May 2013 - 2,994 pilots on American Eagle seniority list
July 2013 - Pedro Fabregas appointed president of American Eagle
July 2013 – American Eagle’s pilot union rejects a B-Scale proposal as directed by ALPA policy. Management specifically references Endeavor's lower costs as the reason for additional concession (See Jan 2015)
Sep 2013 - Pilots at PSA, supported by ALPA, approve industry bottom contract that includes a B-Scale to ensure they receive American Eagle aircraft
Dec 2013 - AA and US Airways merge and American Airlines exits bankruptcy
Dec 2013 - AA orders 30 CRJ 900 for PSA with option for 40 more
Dec 2013 - AA orders 60 EMB 175s with options for 90 more. These orders are then used to threaten American Eagle pilots
Dec 2013 – Just 10 days after exiting bankruptcy management returns for additional concessions to honor the sweet fleet plan.
Dec 2013 – 2,778 pilots on American Eagle seniority list
Jan 2014 - American Eagle renamed envoy air
Mar 2014 - (12:00) envoy pilots reject a second attempt at another concessionary contract
Mar 2014 - (12:02) envoy pilots notified that they would not fly Chautauqua ORD flying when ORD VP drags new SkyWest jet out and parks it in front of ORD crew room
Apr 2014 -2,604 pilots on envoy seniority list
May 2014 - Under armed guard PSA’s new CRJ 900 is unveiled……in DFW
May 2014 - Mesa awarded 6 CRJ-900’s without concessionary demands
Jun 2014 - Compass awarded 20 EMB 175s without concessionary demands
Sep 2014 - envoy pilots notified that AA will transfer all 47 of its CRJ 700s to PSA
Oct 2014 - envoy begins to close MIA crew base
Nov 2014 - Mesa begins DFW operations and will become the largest operator of regional jets in DFW
Nov 2014 - envoy pilots notified that 50 jets will be transferred from envoy airlines to help solve staffing. 20 to Piedmont, 15 to TSA and 15 to ExpressJet. Oddly, this move backfires and attrition sky rockets
Dec 2014 - (12:00 PM) envoy pilots accept concessionary contract with the promise of 40 EMB 175s and 90 options.
Dec 2014 - (2:00 PM) AA awards employees 4% raises, not to include envoy pilots
Jan 2015 - 2,370 pilots on envoy seniority list
Jan 2015 - Endeavor pilots receive $80,000 retention bonus (See July 2013)
Feb 2015 - PSA given 24 additional CRJ-900 options, reducing envoy’s promised options by 24.
Feb 2015 - Mesa orders seven additional CRJ 900s, reducing envoy’s promised options by an additional 7. The agreement also includes an undisclosed number of options to purchase additional CRJ900 aircraft that would also reduce envoy’s promised options even further.
Feb 2015 - Flow through pilots are notified that the flow through has been temporarily stopped
Feb 2015 - envoy pilots notified that the company will close its NY EMB base with the CRJ base to follow.
Feb 2015 - Compass begins flying EMB-175s from American Eagle's old LAX base
Since then Envoy has given away more flying, much of which has gone to SkyWest.
***Giving credit where it's due. I found this information here:
The American Eagle Story - the later years
Early 2011 - American Eagle is taking delivery of 27 CRJ 700s. New hires are totaling 40-50 per month.
Aug 2011 - Captain upgrade time drops from almost 10 years in 2010 to 4. If everything stayed the same, it would drop to around 3 in just under a year.
Sep 2011 - American Eagle has over 3400 pilots on its seniority list.
Oct 2011 - AMR files for bankruptcy. Hiring immediately stops and 76 new hires are furloughed.
Apr 2012 - American Eagle closes SJU base.
May 2012 – American Eagle pilots begin bankruptcy negotiations for a new concessionary contract that would include a new sweet fleet plan.
Aug 2012 - AA and US Airways begin talks
Sep 2012 - American Eagle closes LAX base
Sep 2012 - SkyWest given contract to operate 23 CRJ-200s out of LAX
Oct 2012 – American Eagle pilots approve concessionary bankruptcy contract with the sweet fleet plan language removed and changed to a gentleman’s agreement
Nov 2012 – 3,141 pilots on envoy seniority list
Jan 2013 - Republic granted 47 EMB 175s with an additional 47 options. Envoy pilots receive 0 aircraft in exchange for their bankruptcy concessions
Feb 2013 - AA and US Airways begin formal merger
Feb 2013 - ExpresJet begins operating CRJs from DFW
May 2013 - 2,994 pilots on American Eagle seniority list
July 2013 - Pedro Fabregas appointed president of American Eagle
July 2013 – American Eagle’s pilot union rejects a B-Scale proposal as directed by ALPA policy. Management specifically references Endeavor's lower costs as the reason for additional concession (See Jan 2015)
Sep 2013 - Pilots at PSA, supported by ALPA, approve industry bottom contract that includes a B-Scale to ensure they receive American Eagle aircraft
Dec 2013 - AA and US Airways merge and American Airlines exits bankruptcy
Dec 2013 - AA orders 30 CRJ 900 for PSA with option for 40 more
Dec 2013 - AA orders 60 EMB 175s with options for 90 more. These orders are then used to threaten American Eagle pilots
Dec 2013 – Just 10 days after exiting bankruptcy management returns for additional concessions to honor the sweet fleet plan.
Dec 2013 – 2,778 pilots on American Eagle seniority list
Jan 2014 - American Eagle renamed envoy air
Mar 2014 - (12:00) envoy pilots reject a second attempt at another concessionary contract
Mar 2014 - (12:02) envoy pilots notified that they would not fly Chautauqua ORD flying when ORD VP drags new SkyWest jet out and parks it in front of ORD crew room
Apr 2014 -2,604 pilots on envoy seniority list
May 2014 - Under armed guard PSA’s new CRJ 900 is unveiled……in DFW
May 2014 - Mesa awarded 6 CRJ-900’s without concessionary demands
Jun 2014 - Compass awarded 20 EMB 175s without concessionary demands
Sep 2014 - envoy pilots notified that AA will transfer all 47 of its CRJ 700s to PSA
Oct 2014 - envoy begins to close MIA crew base
Nov 2014 - Mesa begins DFW operations and will become the largest operator of regional jets in DFW
Nov 2014 - envoy pilots notified that 50 jets will be transferred from envoy airlines to help solve staffing. 20 to Piedmont, 15 to TSA and 15 to ExpressJet. Oddly, this move backfires and attrition sky rockets
Dec 2014 - (12:00 PM) envoy pilots accept concessionary contract with the promise of 40 EMB 175s and 90 options.
Dec 2014 - (2:00 PM) AA awards employees 4% raises, not to include envoy pilots
Jan 2015 - 2,370 pilots on envoy seniority list
Jan 2015 - Endeavor pilots receive $80,000 retention bonus (See July 2013)
Feb 2015 - PSA given 24 additional CRJ-900 options, reducing envoy’s promised options by 24.
Feb 2015 - Mesa orders seven additional CRJ 900s, reducing envoy’s promised options by an additional 7. The agreement also includes an undisclosed number of options to purchase additional CRJ900 aircraft that would also reduce envoy’s promised options even further.
Feb 2015 - Flow through pilots are notified that the flow through has been temporarily stopped
Feb 2015 - envoy pilots notified that the company will close its NY EMB base with the CRJ base to follow.
Feb 2015 - Compass begins flying EMB-175s from American Eagle's old LAX base
Since then Envoy has given away more flying, much of which has gone to SkyWest.
***Giving credit where it's due. I found this information here:
The American Eagle Story - the later years
Last edited by invalidPairing; 06-08-2017 at 04:56 AM. Reason: giving credit
06-08-2017, 05:31 AM
#7607
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,157
Originally Posted by invalidPairing
Here's a brief history lesson of "money paying the bills" at Envoy.
Early 2011 - American Eagle is taking delivery of 27 CRJ 700s. New hires are totaling 40-50 per month.
Aug 2011 - Captain upgrade time drops from almost 10 years in 2010 to 4. If everything stayed the same, it would drop to around 3 in just under a year.
Sep 2011 - American Eagle has over 3400 pilots on its seniority list.
Oct 2011 - AMR files for bankruptcy. Hiring immediately stops and 76 new hires are furloughed.
Apr 2012 - American Eagle closes SJU base.
May 2012 – American Eagle pilots begin bankruptcy negotiations for a new concessionary contract that would include a new sweet fleet plan.
Aug 2012 - AA and US Airways begin talks
Sep 2012 - American Eagle closes LAX base
Sep 2012 - SkyWest given contract to operate 23 CRJ-200s out of LAX
Oct 2012 – American Eagle pilots approve concessionary bankruptcy contract with the sweet fleet plan language removed and changed to a gentleman’s agreement
Nov 2012 – 3,141 pilots on envoy seniority list
Jan 2013 - Republic granted 47 EMB 175s with an additional 47 options. Envoy pilots receive 0 aircraft in exchange for their bankruptcy concessions
Feb 2013 - AA and US Airways begin formal merger
Feb 2013 - ExpresJet begins operating CRJs from DFW
May 2013 - 2,994 pilots on American Eagle seniority list
July 2013 - Pedro Fabregas appointed president of American Eagle
July 2013 – American Eagle’s pilot union rejects a B-Scale proposal as directed by ALPA policy. Management specifically references Endeavor's lower costs as the reason for additional concession (See Jan 2015)
Sep 2013 - Pilots at PSA, supported by ALPA, approve industry bottom contract that includes a B-Scale to ensure they receive American Eagle aircraft
Dec 2013 - AA and US Airways merge and American Airlines exits bankruptcy
Dec 2013 - AA orders 30 CRJ 900 for PSA with option for 40 more
Dec 2013 - AA orders 60 EMB 175s with options for 90 more. These orders are then used to threaten American Eagle pilots
Dec 2013 – Just 10 days after exiting bankruptcy management returns for additional concessions to honor the sweet fleet plan.
Dec 2013 – 2,778 pilots on American Eagle seniority list
Jan 2014 - American Eagle renamed envoy air
Mar 2014 - (12:00) envoy pilots reject a second attempt at another concessionary contract
Mar 2014 - (12:02) envoy pilots notified that they would not fly Chautauqua ORD flying when ORD VP drags new SkyWest jet out and parks it in front of ORD crew room
Apr 2014 -2,604 pilots on envoy seniority list
May 2014 - Under armed guard PSA’s new CRJ 900 is unveiled……in DFW
May 2014 - Mesa awarded 6 CRJ-900’s without concessionary demands
Jun 2014 - Compass awarded 20 EMB 175s without concessionary demands
Sep 2014 - envoy pilots notified that AA will transfer all 47 of its CRJ 700s to PSA
Oct 2014 - envoy begins to close MIA crew base
Nov 2014 - Mesa begins DFW operations and will become the largest operator of regional jets in DFW
Nov 2014 - envoy pilots notified that 50 jets will be transferred from envoy airlines to help solve staffing. 20 to Piedmont, 15 to TSA and 15 to ExpressJet. Oddly, this move backfires and attrition sky rockets
Dec 2014 - (12:00 PM) envoy pilots accept concessionary contract with the promise of 40 EMB 175s and 90 options.
Dec 2014 - (2:00 PM) AA awards employees 4% raises, not to include envoy pilots
Jan 2015 - 2,370 pilots on envoy seniority list
Jan 2015 - Endeavor pilots receive $80,000 retention bonus (See July 2013)
Feb 2015 - PSA given 24 additional CRJ-900 options, reducing envoy’s promised options by 24.
Feb 2015 - Mesa orders seven additional CRJ 900s, reducing envoy’s promised options by an additional 7. The agreement also includes an undisclosed number of options to purchase additional CRJ900 aircraft that would also reduce envoy’s promised options even further.
Feb 2015 - Flow through pilots are notified that the flow through has been temporarily stopped
Feb 2015 - envoy pilots notified that the company will close its NY EMB base with the CRJ base to follow.
Feb 2015 - Compass begins flying EMB-175s from American Eagle's old LAX base
Since then Envoy has given away more flying, much of which has gone to SkyWest.
***Giving credit where it's due. I found this information here:
The American Eagle Story - the later years
Early 2011 - American Eagle is taking delivery of 27 CRJ 700s. New hires are totaling 40-50 per month.
Aug 2011 - Captain upgrade time drops from almost 10 years in 2010 to 4. If everything stayed the same, it would drop to around 3 in just under a year.
Sep 2011 - American Eagle has over 3400 pilots on its seniority list.
Oct 2011 - AMR files for bankruptcy. Hiring immediately stops and 76 new hires are furloughed.
Apr 2012 - American Eagle closes SJU base.
May 2012 – American Eagle pilots begin bankruptcy negotiations for a new concessionary contract that would include a new sweet fleet plan.
Aug 2012 - AA and US Airways begin talks
Sep 2012 - American Eagle closes LAX base
Sep 2012 - SkyWest given contract to operate 23 CRJ-200s out of LAX
Oct 2012 – American Eagle pilots approve concessionary bankruptcy contract with the sweet fleet plan language removed and changed to a gentleman’s agreement
Nov 2012 – 3,141 pilots on envoy seniority list
Jan 2013 - Republic granted 47 EMB 175s with an additional 47 options. Envoy pilots receive 0 aircraft in exchange for their bankruptcy concessions
Feb 2013 - AA and US Airways begin formal merger
Feb 2013 - ExpresJet begins operating CRJs from DFW
May 2013 - 2,994 pilots on American Eagle seniority list
July 2013 - Pedro Fabregas appointed president of American Eagle
July 2013 – American Eagle’s pilot union rejects a B-Scale proposal as directed by ALPA policy. Management specifically references Endeavor's lower costs as the reason for additional concession (See Jan 2015)
Sep 2013 - Pilots at PSA, supported by ALPA, approve industry bottom contract that includes a B-Scale to ensure they receive American Eagle aircraft
Dec 2013 - AA and US Airways merge and American Airlines exits bankruptcy
Dec 2013 - AA orders 30 CRJ 900 for PSA with option for 40 more
Dec 2013 - AA orders 60 EMB 175s with options for 90 more. These orders are then used to threaten American Eagle pilots
Dec 2013 – Just 10 days after exiting bankruptcy management returns for additional concessions to honor the sweet fleet plan.
Dec 2013 – 2,778 pilots on American Eagle seniority list
Jan 2014 - American Eagle renamed envoy air
Mar 2014 - (12:00) envoy pilots reject a second attempt at another concessionary contract
Mar 2014 - (12:02) envoy pilots notified that they would not fly Chautauqua ORD flying when ORD VP drags new SkyWest jet out and parks it in front of ORD crew room
Apr 2014 -2,604 pilots on envoy seniority list
May 2014 - Under armed guard PSA’s new CRJ 900 is unveiled……in DFW
May 2014 - Mesa awarded 6 CRJ-900’s without concessionary demands
Jun 2014 - Compass awarded 20 EMB 175s without concessionary demands
Sep 2014 - envoy pilots notified that AA will transfer all 47 of its CRJ 700s to PSA
Oct 2014 - envoy begins to close MIA crew base
Nov 2014 - Mesa begins DFW operations and will become the largest operator of regional jets in DFW
Nov 2014 - envoy pilots notified that 50 jets will be transferred from envoy airlines to help solve staffing. 20 to Piedmont, 15 to TSA and 15 to ExpressJet. Oddly, this move backfires and attrition sky rockets
Dec 2014 - (12:00 PM) envoy pilots accept concessionary contract with the promise of 40 EMB 175s and 90 options.
Dec 2014 - (2:00 PM) AA awards employees 4% raises, not to include envoy pilots
Jan 2015 - 2,370 pilots on envoy seniority list
Jan 2015 - Endeavor pilots receive $80,000 retention bonus (See July 2013)
Feb 2015 - PSA given 24 additional CRJ-900 options, reducing envoy’s promised options by 24.
Feb 2015 - Mesa orders seven additional CRJ 900s, reducing envoy’s promised options by an additional 7. The agreement also includes an undisclosed number of options to purchase additional CRJ900 aircraft that would also reduce envoy’s promised options even further.
Feb 2015 - Flow through pilots are notified that the flow through has been temporarily stopped
Feb 2015 - envoy pilots notified that the company will close its NY EMB base with the CRJ base to follow.
Feb 2015 - Compass begins flying EMB-175s from American Eagle's old LAX base
Since then Envoy has given away more flying, much of which has gone to SkyWest.
***Giving credit where it's due. I found this information here:
The American Eagle Story - the later years
06-08-2017, 06:05 AM
#7608
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jun 2016
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by CBreezy
Since 2015, 2 years ago, they have reopened MIA and NYC and the flow remains strong.
06-08-2017, 06:38 AM
#7609
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,157
Originally Posted by invalidPairing
I'm really not interested in turning this into an Envoy thread. Bottom line - management there has reneged on their promises time and time again. If you have an understanding of AA history and still believe this time will be any different you're a fool.
You have oversimplified a very complex situation that occurred with several different management teams over a bankruptcy and a merger and one that has changed significantly since your timeline ended. You are also completely ignoring market forces and a clear AA staffing model.
06-08-2017, 06:46 AM
#7610
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,205
If your going to look at Envoy. Look back at 1997. Sign this 16 year contract or no jets and no flow through!!! That was drama!!
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