PNWFlyer

Curious why the crew made such short electric trim inputs. If the nose is heavy stay on the trim until it isn’t.

Also the report says they ran the checklist. I can’t see in the transcript where they did that. They called out 2 steps and turned the switches back on at the top end. That is not part of the checklist.

Boeing has already admitted the MCAS software is flawed but common. As pilots we have to fly airplane. Trim and if that is not enough trim some more. If in goes back down trim again and when it gets to where you like it turn it off. The Lion Air Captain as was mentioned before was flying for a while trimming with no issue. Problem started when the Lion Air FO stopped trimming.

Mesabah

Lack of experience and fear cause bad or no decisions. Boeing's problems are now political resistance, they have moved out of the technical fix realm IMHO.

Proximity

I don't understand your infatuation with blaming the First Officer.

Reading the report it sounds like they had their hands full just flying the aircraft. The Captain made repeated requests to the First Officer to help him on the controls. That, along with the cacophony of aural alerts, flashing visual warnings, and the startle factor no doubt influenced their decision making. It looks to me like the First Officer had several key suggestions and there is nothing to show that he was "weak" as internet warriors so frequently like to portray him.

The aircraft is clearly flawed and no amount of blaming the crew will absolve Boeing of that.

Mesabah

I surmise the PNW, means Pacific North West, aka Boeing country.

PNWFlyer

Since when is an accident cause by any one thing? Remove one link and accident doesn’t happen. We already know about the MCAS flaw. We don’t know why the crews are not trimming the aircraft. It is not blame. It is a question. The Lion Air crews before the crash flew just fine. The Captain on last Lion Air flight was flying fine. The Lion Air FO quit trimming. The Ethiopian FO was not flying. In that case it was the Capatain that was not being aggressive with the trim. Yes there were a lot of things going on but that is our job. Tune out the distractions and above all fly the aircraft. I had been proven that the aircraft is controllable if you use the trim. Proven by the first 3 Lion are crews and proven repeatedly in the SIM.


What were the causal factors in the Air France 447 crash? Was it just the faulty Pitot tunes? Or were there also crew actions that led to the accident?

PNWFlyer

This is the SWA forum right? What do they have a very large fleet of?

Proximity

Here's another assumption we should banish right now...just because someone works at Southwest doesn't mean they are necessarily a fan of the 737. Sure it pays the bills and I like the common fleet type, but out of aircraft that seat 143 aircraft I'd much rather fly an A319 or A220.

Likely they were overwhelmed and in a high stress situation. The Ethiopian crew also had the additive condition of both being low on time in type. I think we were lucky in the USA that apparently no US airline ever encountered this situation.

DENpilot

GGG's?

filler

PNWFlyer

Are we not trained to operate in high stress situations? The other Lion Air crews handled it and I have no doubt a IS crew could handle it. What made these 2 crews unable? The me say it again other Lion Air crews flew the airplane under the exact same conditions.

Not blame, but why. Need to know why to fix it. Just like Boeing is fixing MCAS. You have to identify all causes and fix them all to prevent other accidents.

Who cares what airplane you are a fan of unless you own your own airline and are buying the airplanes.

symbian simian

The only thing that would have saved the day would have been him trimming the nose up, so trimming down didn't help.

(yes re-engaging the electric trim, thumb trimming the nose up and switching the trim off again would have worked/been better, but if they were aware enough to do that the would have just left the flaps down and reduced power and never gotten in the sh*t)