737 MAX - Safe or Unsafe?
#193
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,613
#194
Well, to be fair what is the alternative? A simulator doesn’t exist and even if it did, how long would it take to run 10,000 pilots through a classroom and simulator training event.
That’s precisely what distance learning was built for - to quickly disseminate information to a wide audience. Provided the software fix solves the immediate problem and no heroic airmanship should be required in the immediate future I’m just fine with distance learning now, followed by simulator training via the normal recurrent cycle when the simulators are available.
Full disclosure, my wife is an instructional designer who creates distance learning for another company.
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#195
I guess it really depends on what level differences the FAA is going to classify the new changes as. The MAX was classified as Level “B”. I think now, the FAA is going to be looked at as crazy and incompetent, if when the new changes come out, they again say “30 minutes on the iPad is okay.” I’m guessing the new MAX changes are going to be classified as Level “C” (at least), but probably “D,” which requires an FTD.
FAA 8900.1
Originally Posted by “FAA 8900.1”
B. Level B Differences. Level B differences are those differences in systems, controls, and indicators that have only minor procedural differences. Level B differences are of great enough degree to require formal training in general operational subjects, aircraft systems, or both, but are not of great enough degree to require systems integration training. An example of a Level B difference is a fuel system with additional fuel tanks, pumps, and gauges. Procedural differences are limited to the operation of transfer valves and pumps while an aircraft is in cruise flight. Appropriate instructional methods for Level B differences include, but are not limited to, audiovisual presentations, lectures, and tutorial computer-based instruction (TCBI). A task or systems check for Level B differences must be conducted after training. Appropriate methods include an oral or written exam or TCBI self-test.
C. Level C Differences. Level C differences are part task differences of flightcrew member knowledge, skills, and/or abilities. Level C differences are those differences of great enough degree to require a systems integration training module but that are not of great enough degree to require actual flight training (see Volume 3, Chapter 19, Section 5 for a definition and description of systems integration training). An example of a Level C difference is the installation of a flight management system (FMS) computer. Appropriate training methods in the systems integration module are dedicated part task trainers, interactive computer-based instruction (ICBI), or Level 4 or higher flight simulation training devices (FSTD). Level C differences require a check following training. Appropriate devices are the same as for Level C training. Checking methods appropriate to Level C differences are demonstrations of skill in the procedures affected by the difference. In the case of the installation of an FMS computer, checking might consist of preflight programming of the computer and a demonstration of its use in navigation, climbs, and descents.
D. Level D Differences. Level D differences are full task differences of flightcrew member knowledge, skills, and/or abilities. Level D differences are those differences for which there is a requirement for flight training modules in a Level 6 or higher FSTD. When Level D differences exist between two aircraft, general operational subject modules, aircraft systems modules, and systems integration modules may be required. An example of a Level D difference is the installation of an electronically integrated flight instrumentation display. Aircraft operations using such a display are required to contain flight training in most phases of flight. Level 6 or higher FSTDs are appropriate for conducting Level D differences training and qualification modules. Level D differences require a check following training. The check must be conducted using scenarios representing a real‑time flight environment.
E. Level E Differences. Level E differences are such significant full task differences that a “high‑fidelity” environment is required to attain or maintain knowledge, skills, or abilities. Level E differences are those differences for which there is a requirement for flight training, including landing events. An example of a Level E difference is the installation of a Short Takeoff and Landing (STOL) kit on an aircraft, resulting in a very different flare and landing attitude. A Level C or D full flight simulator (FFS) or an aircraft is required for flight training in Level E differences. Checking for Level E differences requires a full part 121 proficiency check or part 135 competency check in a Level C or D FFS or an aircraft.
C. Level C Differences. Level C differences are part task differences of flightcrew member knowledge, skills, and/or abilities. Level C differences are those differences of great enough degree to require a systems integration training module but that are not of great enough degree to require actual flight training (see Volume 3, Chapter 19, Section 5 for a definition and description of systems integration training). An example of a Level C difference is the installation of a flight management system (FMS) computer. Appropriate training methods in the systems integration module are dedicated part task trainers, interactive computer-based instruction (ICBI), or Level 4 or higher flight simulation training devices (FSTD). Level C differences require a check following training. Appropriate devices are the same as for Level C training. Checking methods appropriate to Level C differences are demonstrations of skill in the procedures affected by the difference. In the case of the installation of an FMS computer, checking might consist of preflight programming of the computer and a demonstration of its use in navigation, climbs, and descents.
D. Level D Differences. Level D differences are full task differences of flightcrew member knowledge, skills, and/or abilities. Level D differences are those differences for which there is a requirement for flight training modules in a Level 6 or higher FSTD. When Level D differences exist between two aircraft, general operational subject modules, aircraft systems modules, and systems integration modules may be required. An example of a Level D difference is the installation of an electronically integrated flight instrumentation display. Aircraft operations using such a display are required to contain flight training in most phases of flight. Level 6 or higher FSTDs are appropriate for conducting Level D differences training and qualification modules. Level D differences require a check following training. The check must be conducted using scenarios representing a real‑time flight environment.
E. Level E Differences. Level E differences are such significant full task differences that a “high‑fidelity” environment is required to attain or maintain knowledge, skills, or abilities. Level E differences are those differences for which there is a requirement for flight training, including landing events. An example of a Level E difference is the installation of a Short Takeoff and Landing (STOL) kit on an aircraft, resulting in a very different flare and landing attitude. A Level C or D full flight simulator (FFS) or an aircraft is required for flight training in Level E differences. Checking for Level E differences requires a full part 121 proficiency check or part 135 competency check in a Level C or D FFS or an aircraft.
#198
Banned
Joined APC: May 2014
Position: Tom’s Whipping boy.
Posts: 1,182
Remember the MD80 max flap takeoff procedure developed after the LGA accident? 23 flaps for all takeoffs when the runway is contaminated. Except a heavy 2 engine jet with max flaps on one engine is a pig, at best.
Being dubious about the prospect of surviving a V1 cut at heavy weight with 23 flaps at sea level, I tried 4 in the sim. Crashed every time. When this was reported to flight ops, they panicked. “Oh the sim is just programmed wrong”. We fixed it now...it works.
“Uh, did you get the Steve Canyon crews to do flight testing on that”? Naw, it’s all extrapolated data.
“Oh, does that mean all the PC’s for the last year are invalid”?
More panic... then uh,...no, because we didn’t do any flap23 engine outs.....
Quietly, reversed policy a few months later and put the corner of the rug back.
#200
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