I simply disagree. Being junior sucks. What the company did was a crappy thing to do (putting it nicely to get passed APC's rules). We should not be disregarding seniority for it though. Most people will be back in their base of choice this year. I will vote against anything that does more than we already do wrt negating seniority. Pin it on the company all you want and you got my vote.

 

At what point do you cease to be junior? How long do you need to be based somewhere before it’s no longer ok to screw with you? What system seniority makes you stop being junior?

or does that line just move as long as it doesn’t affect you?

 

So is it moronic that DAL has overnights in ATL? How about UAL in DEN? AAL in DFW? Almost all airlines have overnights in domiciles. Just follow the money. SWA has overnights in all its domiciles. I had DEN overnights long before all these displacements came along. DPOS doesn’t really care about overnights. It cares about rigs, which is a much bigger cost than an overnight. Quite blaming crew planning or network planning. This solely is the fault of a loop hole that by the way has been voted on for 40 plus years by this pilot group. Needs to be fixed no doubt. Crew planning is taking advantage of it because it’s allowed and it doesn’t cost them a dime. Now if everyone exercised their right for a paid move, they would eat crow big time. Bottom line is it’s cheaper to displace you than to keep you in domicile. Make the math work in the pilot’s favor. If or when we get another fleet type, just as they discussed on the SWAPA podcast, some of these decisions that planning will make are more complicated and more importantly costly if another fleet type comes around. That would be a benefit because we wouldn’t need to burn any negotiating capital to get restrictions. If it doesn’t, restrictions and penalties are needed to make the pilot whole.

 

I've said before to put it on the company not our pilots. If you're too junior for the base, you're too junior. The line is what the line is. If you're a captain the got pushed out, tough ****, bid down.

I would like us to stop all RONs in base, use block hours for staffing, TDYs for seasonal adjustments (although, listen to the last SWAPA podcast, that has ramifications as well), and hotels and must ride DHs for the entirety of your displacement, but no I don't think you should disallow the use of seniority on secondary displacements.

 

Yeah man, I respect that. It will shake out in the polling, I am sure. I am not quite junior enough to get displaced, but I also have empathy for my fellow pilots which is why I have always advocated for them even when it didn’t benefit me directly (reserve improvements, the FO B scale, vacation bidding, etc). I am trying to leave this place nicer than I found it.

 

I notionally agree. Back in 2020 when we were negotiating concessions, that thankfully didn't come to fruition, I spoke with my reps about not taking a pay cut on my behalf. I especially didn't want force majeure being added to our CBA. I would have been one of the first out the door had we furloughed. I say this, not to pat myself on the back, but to add context. I am about progressing our profession, and hampering seniority just doesn't do that.

 

Sweet spots and tough places ebb and flow. Denver was the place to be with huge growth (at the cost of other bases)! Now, the reverse. OAK was the “pay your dues” base now it’s BWI. We’re all in the same boat with the same choices. If the tide goes out under your feet, suck it up and prioritize your base choice or move and prioritize your seniority. Your own choice! The worst thing to do Is become an eternal crying princess that wants the whole word to yield to personal desires. I was all for voting to prioritize ROR. It seems right to me. However, the more I have to listen to grown men cry and throw a never-ending tantrum about it with the idea that their personal choices makes them miserable so everyone else has to be miserable, the less I’m inclined to care about the issue at all. I’m rapidly going from a supporter of ROR changes to shut up and deal with it because I don’t care!

 

well, when those DEN overnights are there to fly DEN-LGA-DEN turns…within OAK and LAS pairings, yes it’s moronic.

 

So only DEN pilots should fly DEN turns? Same with other domiciles? Trip rigs, duty rigs, APL, shouldn’t matter? We are in the business of moving metal around all day, every day. Especially in a heavy p2p operation. DEN is not on an island. It’s connected to the network. They all have to flow into each other or else we would need 1600 airplanes just run the operation as is. We are in a low margin business. Ain’t gonna happen. Allegiant and Frontier do that though. Again I feel for you guys but trying to skin the scheduling cat in “turns” is kinda far fetched. Rigs are just as much to blame for this as is RON stuff. It forces the cost of keeping you DEN with soft pay scenarios vs displacing you which costs nothing. That equation has to change to modify the behavior of the company. You have been long enough to know that the only thing that creates change around here is real costs. That’s all they know.

 

To quote the current VP of Turmoil’s former master (and disturbingly German thin man) - ‘What pilots think of efficient and what I think of efficient are two different things’.