Car Ramrod

Delta code shares with Air France, Aeromexico, Alitalia, China Eastern, China Southern, KLM, Korean Air, Virgin Atlantic plus about a dozen more. The other legacies have many code share partners. Of course I would like all international flying to/from the USA to be done by Spirit pilots, but how would a code share with WOW be any different than what the Legacy airlines do? If the legacy pilot contracts allow it, how can we expect to get better scope provisions than them?

Not trying to flame, just asking a serious question. I assume the legacy contracts don't allow free reign of code shares and the partners are limited to a percentage of overall international flying? Even still that would not rule out a code share with any of the ULCC international companies.

ovrtake92

Valid question and I'd like to know more about that as well. I think the real concern is code share where overlap is possible as in regional partnerships

Qotsaautopilot

The legacies have strict limits on codesharing. We have unlimited codesharing. In some cases those companies are also required to add company flying equal in block hours when they add codeshare block hours. We have no limits, zero. They could literally codesharing out all future flying. All 320s in order would be sold to frontier and any future widebody flying to those doing it already or an airline that doesn't exist yet. Who knows maybe they wouldn't but the point is that they can without any limitation except to keep those of us already in the seniority list. Stagnation forever and shrink as people leave or retire.

Jetblue obviously didn't have a union and had no codesharing limitations. They codeshare with Lufthansa, Azul, Hawaiian, Emerites, cape air, and some others I think. How many jobs is that and how many widebody jobs for that matter?

flyboyike

Easy on the generalizing. English is my FOURTH language, but I don't pick up the phone.

Car Ramrod

No I agree, but I'm not going to get all up in a tizzy just yet because someone may take our widebody jerbs that don't exist yet. I'm more concerned about language that protects what we have (i.e. Domestic).

I'd have to see the whole package and compare to other airline contracts to make a decision on international codeshare language.

Our current contract does contain language in regards to a whipsaw. (Probably hard to win a case in court, but hey it's something...) So they would have to dance delicately if they decided to code share with frontier. Domestic codeshares are always a shat-show anyways so it won't last long. Plus your own product gets worse because: the reason for the code share is not to compliment your network, but instead to apply wage pressure. Pilots and FAs will get pi$$ed. Passengers would get ticked off...It is already confusing enough. This all adds no benefit to the shareholders. That being said, our management will probably play that card because they are a pile of overpaid egotistical morons.

Qotsaautopilot

If we don't look to the future we're going to repeat history. Delta's codesharing language is much much stronger than ours but still loose. They didn't realize it was a problem until it was a problem. They are a largely narrow body company because it. They've had to pay big in career earnings compared to someone starting at united today because united has so many more widebody jobs. They are now trying to get the genie back in the bottle just like the rjs. Learn from history or repeat it. Southwest pilots get it. Let's be more like them.

Scope is the first section because it's the most important.

Car Ramrod

I'll agree that without good domestic scope there may as well be a clause that states "management may pull this agreement at any time".

You make a valid argument in regards to the international scope. Hopefully the NC takes these possibilities into consideration.

Plane Ramrod

Not too sure about that. FO I just flew with was on his second rolling JA/release and third JA in two weeks. Oddly, he also had the healthy complexion that comes with proper nutrition.

dn_wisconsin

Isn't it limited to two a month? Obviously he didn't care.

Sailor

No more or less than the LOCALS