It was nothing more than a leadership town hall. For some reason everyone, including yourself, made it out to be a "big announcement"

Now that they let the air out of your balloon, time to move on.

That jives with what TC and JB told either a recurrent or upgrade class recently. Sometime in Q4 announcement.

Haven’t we been hearing that same crap for the last 2 years?

If there is one thing that is for certain, nothing ever happens fast in the aviation.

This continues to line up with the Max return to service schedule. Face it boys, we're going to be flying museum pieces soon. Same WN bird for far less pay. Fantastic.

(Cue the sound of air coming out of a balloon)

And isn’t that what APC is for...lies, rumors, gossip and occasionally if you have time for it, some truth.

It’s just that simple.... are you guys taking our maintenance facility as well? As part of that deal we signed a deal with Pratt to perform heavy maintenance on the engines for both the 321 neo and 220
So we can give you the planes, then we can take care of them too. Heck you want some a220s as well, maybe a 350?

Free beer tomorrow.

No, but if you could lend me a circa 1990's double breasted, gold button down blazer that would be SWEEEEEEET!

Circa 1990? More like 1930!

I was going to bid on the 757 that took a hard landing, my kids have been begging for a backyard fort, but I’ve just learned it’s being returned to service.

If you think it’s that far fetched why don’t ya just stick to your delta forums instead of caring what us bottom scum spirit folks are doing. By the way light chop reported ahead, hang onto your hats and double breasted blazers.

Defensive much?

You’ve been here like 2 minutes...take a breath...you haven’t been here long enough for self deprecation Spirit humor.

Do you even “low tier,” bro?

Will do, by the way this whole thing started because you came to our forum and told us we were getting max 10s and we were giving you all of our 321 neo. And no one at delta thinks pilots from spirit are bottom scum.
Oh and ps. It’s light to moderate chop

:D are you the guy who made a thread making fun of Delta pilots for making light and moderate chop calls without realizing it’s in the AIM? :D

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/d...ight-chop.html

http://www.faraim.org/aim/aim-4-03-14-475.html

Damnnnnnnn.....:dropping AIM all up on us.

Is that the same book of suggested actions that require notification if you can’t manage a climb of 500fpm?

Do you even "AIM" bro? :D

FWIW he sent the AIM reference in the original post not realizing it said use light chop and moderate chop. 🤣

Interesting blurb in this article. Could that “reward” be ordering the 737 max? Thus jiving with the possibility of delta then giving up the Airbus slots to Spirit.



By Mary Schlangenstein and Julie Johnsson, Bloomberg. "Delta Air Lines is still holding out hope that Boeing will move ahead with a new midrange jetliner whose fate remains in limbo while the planemaker focuses on the crisis engulfing its grounded 737 Max. The carrier's chief executive officer dangled a possible reward to Boeing for proceeding with an aircraft that would be tailored for flights of about 5,000 nautical miles: potentially hundreds of jet sales."

Why would Delta give Spirit any of their orders? They’re big enough and could operate every fleet type out there if they chose to. They currently operate more narrow body Airbus than we do and have more 737’s than we have airplanes. They could easily order the Max to replace their older 737’s and keep the Airbus order to replace their older 319’s and 320’s. I don’t think it’s a one or the other type situation with Delta and they’ll probably end up operating both at some point.


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Delta has a pretty long track record of buying distressed airframes for a deep discount. The A220 and A330Neo are recent examples.

Why buy 100 highly in demand A320’s when Boeing can’t give away their Max fast enough for the time being. A large order might also help restore confidence in the airplane for the general public.

The reward might be 787 orders though. I don’t think the 350 is performing to Delta’s expectations.

Interesting times ahead egardless of a new order, new fleet, fleet swap, merger or acquisition.

I completely agree. Delta can add a MAX order if it wants to. And no way would Delta want to help Spirit by swapping orders and facilitating Spirit’s growth with more A321s. Delta is ruthless with competitors and that makes little strategic sense.

As time passes, it seems more likely that Spirit is waiting for a positive MAX recertification announcement. Why wouldn’t a new A321 order (or even an A220 order) have been negotiated and announced by now? Seems very odd. Meanwhile Boeing is getting aggressive and airlines like BA/IAG have taken advantage with a big order at the Paris Air Show. Time will tell, but the Spirit MAX rumor seems more and more plausible by the day.....

TC’s last comment was “Airbus or larger Boeing aircraft”. Doesn’t really sound like a 73.

A321XLR or NEO is my uneducated guess

Ted's comments are to be taken with a grain of salt.

I think the larger Boeing aircraft being referred to is the MAX 10.

Unfortunately I think you're correct. I never thought I'd be updating my resume here after so long but it may be coming to such. This is a border line horse hockey airline and I won't do it sweating my cramped arse off in an antique POS.

You get paid over $1000 per day and flying a 73 would be a deal breaker for you? What a privileged life you lead......
But yes, the 737 would suck

Dont be so dramatic, its just an airplane. You want to go get hired at any other major to avoid a 737? Most other majors probably will be 737's for new hire AC anyway, and overall some even go more senior than the bus due to schedules/routes.
Back to first year FO pay, probation, and zero seniority? Seems like a good idea. Bet that grass is pretty green over there :rolleyes:

Assuming you are a line holding capt since you "have been here so long". Have fun with that pay cut you will never recover if you leave now, and that loss of seniority that will take 10+ years anywhere else.

Lol so your going to go do it somewhere else?

Some valid points and I won't say you're wrong. But any legacy has the ability to eventually bid out of an airplane. And I don't know where you're sitting but CA line holders are very, very senior. If Spirit continues to add and grow other bases while letting existing bases stagnate then one may be better off at a legacy with record retirements coming versus sitting in the bottom sludge for another decade.

I think anyone coming to NK now, who has options somewhere else, is a damn fool. Even with anticipated growth the time to come here has come and gone. And I feel the same way about WN only years ago. Not everyone can get to a legacy and I have no idea if I could either. But, if the future is being an Alaska or Southwest pilot for decades to come for 75% of the pay then I may very well put my best foot forward and try to go somewhere else.

First of all, this discussion started in regards to your comment about wanting to leave if you had to fly a 737 (yawn). It wasnt about newhires. However....

Someone here would gain similar relative seniority in the next 3 years with our growth then they would over the next 7-10 at a legacy with 13000+ pilots with 500 retirements a year. Im not saying its perfect here, (it isnt anywhere). Someone "with options" needs to evaluate whats best for them and make the best of it. For me, staying here works great, and going to a legacy would work great too. I wouldnt ever call anyone a fool for staying here if they had options or not. Everyone has their own reasons for the choices they make. Starting over at any legacy would still potentially take many years to get back to the same seniority and or pay unless you are new hire, (especially true for senior FO's and Capts) and our growth is extremely attractive, just like retirements. Many of our pilots dont have the time left to restart at an another airline, or they simply enjoy their current seniority and schedule. There is nothing wrong with that.

Capt line holders very very senior? lol. the vast majority of our airline has been here under 10 years. Think about that....

27 more used 321s will be entering the market shortly.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49791249

Over 1300 pilots at spirit are under 45 years old. That's over 55%. If growth slows or stops, it's a grind ahead. Especially given the FO pay gap is far larger than the captain's gap. Food for thought... What's the percentage of pilots that will retire at the legacies in the next twenty years?

Thomas Cook and Condor.

https://www.businessinsider.com/thomas-cook-bankrupt-airline-stranded-rescue-2019-9

Everyone leave Macjet alone...
I think that he is senior to me!

No one should or would come here if they had an offer from a legacy unless possibly they’re really tied to living in a Spirit base. I don’t think anyone is arguing this is “better” all things being equal. That’s why most attrition at Spirit comes from the bottom. Doesn’t take a brain surgeon or rocket scientist to figure that dynamic out.

I came here because I thought I’d rather get stuck here than at my regional. I know it’s taboo to say that and compare it to a regional but I upgraded quickly and now I’m not leaving. If Delta or United called when I was a junior FO I probably would have left but they didn’t... I still have friends I went through new hire training with at the regionals waiting for that call making 2/3 less and working more days.

It’s respectable that they’re waiting on their dream job though...

This right here. It's almost never a question of having a choice between Spirit and a legacy like you guys are hypothesizing. It's almost always a question of coming to Spirit or staying at a regional. I feel that choice is pretty clear.

Yeah not always. A friend of mine had a class date at UPS and came to Spirit instead. As far as he is concerned it’s the best decision he has ever made. I have also met people who chose NK over AK, HA and JB. Go back to trashing Spirit now...

I thought I was the only one thinking that...
Even if he's not, at least his curmudgeon attitude won't be missed.