Jet blue wants us now
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2019
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 115
10 years of giving complete JV relief for 100% of the NEA/MGIA, to the largest carrier in the world, in which RJs can fly B6 code and in which that revenue is shared with jetblue, and in which international is largely given away. It’s not that narrow, and a decade isn’t that temporary. A JV using CPA/FFD/WO’d RJs that share revenue is a 10 year bypass around the jetblue express exclusion in section 1. But if Chris Kenney says it is narrow, limited, and temporary enough times, I guess 60% of the pilots will believe it lol
GMAFB
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 703
Think of the most dastardly worst case dramatic scenario unfolding from a seemingly innocuous LOA with dubious language with union leadership dissuading concerns with “they’d never do that” and that’s the beginning of a scenario many here have seen before. Don’t mock and rather take their paranoia seriously for your own sake. Many have seen this time and time again.
#53
We did NOT give up scope. That's not factual. We gave very limited relief to specific sections of scope, but the majority of the NEA was allowed under the current scope rules. By approving LOA 17, scope was protected from the arbitrator gutting it in his decision.
And at any rate, a joint collective bargaining agreement will need to be negotiated if the merger happens. All of that will be up for grabs, and can be regnegotiated.
And at any rate, a joint collective bargaining agreement will need to be negotiated if the merger happens. All of that will be up for grabs, and can be regnegotiated.
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2019
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 115
In either a merger or an acquisition the restrictions in the current NK contract governing mergers and acquisitions must be either honored or renegotiated in a JCBA or (less likely) the two airlines run as parallel operations. So realistically you are talking a JCBA and if the leadership of the two unions aren’t setting up a meeting for right now this week to negotiate the best JCBA possible they are not doing their jobs.
E. Merger and Successorship Protections In the event there is a merger or other Successorship Transaction involving an air carrier or an Entity that Controls an air carrier with the Company in which the seniority rights of Pilots on the JetBlue Pilots System Seniority List could be affected, the following procedures will apply:
1. The Companies or Successor and the pilot groups subject to the transaction will negotiate a Transition and Process Agreement (“TPA”) to outline the procedures and timelines for negotiation of a joint collective bargaining agreement and the integration of the Pilot System Seniority Lists.
2. A single collective bargaining agreement will be negotiated by the pilot groups and the Companies subject to the transaction or their Successor. While such negotiations are ongoing and until a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement is ratified the status quo as specified in the agreement(s) of the impacted pilot group(s) will apply. Each pre-merger carrier shall keep separate flight operations of the carriers and will not transfer or interchange pilots or aircraft between the carriers unless otherwise negotiated and agreed to by the Association, and shall ensure that all Company aircraft on hand or on order at the time of the transaction are operated only by JetBlue Pilots. This will not prohibit the carrier from obtaining a single operating certificate. Recognition and Job Security 1-3
3. If all pre-transaction pilot groups are represented by the Association, on or before the date of closing of the successorship transaction or merger, the JetBlue MEC shall make a request to the ALPA Executive Council under the Association Merger and Fragmentation Policy then in existence (“Merger Policy”) that a “reasonable probability of a merger being consummated” has occurred within the meaning of and so as to trigger the application of ALPA Merger Policy. ALPA shall complete the seniority integration and present an integrated seniority list to the Company as expeditiously as is reasonable. If any pre-transaction pilot group is not represented by the Association, the procedures specified in Sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protective Provisions, 59, CAB 22 (1972), consistent with the requirements of the McCaskill-Bond statute, shall apply. The companies involved in the merger or successorship transaction shall accept the integrated seniority list, including any conditions and restrictions, established through Association Merger Policy or LPP proceedings, as applicable, provided that none of the attendant conditions and restrictions therein: i) require a system flush whereby pilots may displace any other pilots from the latter’s position; ii) require a pilot to be compensated for flying not performed (e.g., differential pay for a position not flown); or iii) significantly increase the Company’s costs, including through retroactive monetary liability on the part of either pre-merger carrier.
4. There shall be no furloughs due to a Transactional Event until two (2) years after the closing of the Transactional Event.
1. The Companies or Successor and the pilot groups subject to the transaction will negotiate a Transition and Process Agreement (“TPA”) to outline the procedures and timelines for negotiation of a joint collective bargaining agreement and the integration of the Pilot System Seniority Lists.
2. A single collective bargaining agreement will be negotiated by the pilot groups and the Companies subject to the transaction or their Successor. While such negotiations are ongoing and until a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement is ratified the status quo as specified in the agreement(s) of the impacted pilot group(s) will apply. Each pre-merger carrier shall keep separate flight operations of the carriers and will not transfer or interchange pilots or aircraft between the carriers unless otherwise negotiated and agreed to by the Association, and shall ensure that all Company aircraft on hand or on order at the time of the transaction are operated only by JetBlue Pilots. This will not prohibit the carrier from obtaining a single operating certificate. Recognition and Job Security 1-3
3. If all pre-transaction pilot groups are represented by the Association, on or before the date of closing of the successorship transaction or merger, the JetBlue MEC shall make a request to the ALPA Executive Council under the Association Merger and Fragmentation Policy then in existence (“Merger Policy”) that a “reasonable probability of a merger being consummated” has occurred within the meaning of and so as to trigger the application of ALPA Merger Policy. ALPA shall complete the seniority integration and present an integrated seniority list to the Company as expeditiously as is reasonable. If any pre-transaction pilot group is not represented by the Association, the procedures specified in Sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protective Provisions, 59, CAB 22 (1972), consistent with the requirements of the McCaskill-Bond statute, shall apply. The companies involved in the merger or successorship transaction shall accept the integrated seniority list, including any conditions and restrictions, established through Association Merger Policy or LPP proceedings, as applicable, provided that none of the attendant conditions and restrictions therein: i) require a system flush whereby pilots may displace any other pilots from the latter’s position; ii) require a pilot to be compensated for flying not performed (e.g., differential pay for a position not flown); or iii) significantly increase the Company’s costs, including through retroactive monetary liability on the part of either pre-merger carrier.
4. There shall be no furloughs due to a Transactional Event until two (2) years after the closing of the Transactional Event.
#59
Covfefe
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
Curious what your DOH/seniority distribution is.
Here's some info about JetBlue's:
As of today's class, there are 4,477 pilots on property.
#1 hired 10/4/1999
224=5%, hired 2/5/02
448=10%, hired 3/3/03
896=20%, hired 9/14/05
1348=30%, hired 3/14/07
1798=40%, hired 1/5/11
2339=50%, hired 10/2/13
2687=60%, hired 2/18/15
3138=70%, hired 2/22/17
3584=80%, hired 1/23/19
4030=90%, hired 7/14/21
Here's some info about JetBlue's:
As of today's class, there are 4,477 pilots on property.
#1 hired 10/4/1999
224=5%, hired 2/5/02
448=10%, hired 3/3/03
896=20%, hired 9/14/05
1348=30%, hired 3/14/07
1798=40%, hired 1/5/11
2339=50%, hired 10/2/13
2687=60%, hired 2/18/15
3138=70%, hired 2/22/17
3584=80%, hired 1/23/19
4030=90%, hired 7/14/21
#60
Reading this thread, I’m very hesitant to want to be affiliated with the overall JetBlue group. There seems to be a lot of internal hostility, well beyond anything here at Spirit (not that we don’t have our own problems).
When the Spirit Frontier merger was announced, we were both united against our own management groups, not our own pilots. When this was announced, LOA-whatever was brought up, and vaccines, and it turns into a blather fest…..
I personally love the JetBlue product, but based on a lot of the crap that has been posted, I’m not sure I want to tie the knot. But, it’s not up to me. If we do, I hope we have happy times flying together bashing our management while later enjoying beers at the overnight.
When the Spirit Frontier merger was announced, we were both united against our own management groups, not our own pilots. When this was announced, LOA-whatever was brought up, and vaccines, and it turns into a blather fest…..
I personally love the JetBlue product, but based on a lot of the crap that has been posted, I’m not sure I want to tie the knot. But, it’s not up to me. If we do, I hope we have happy times flying together bashing our management while later enjoying beers at the overnight.
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