Not trying to go back and forth on opinion based statements. I was saying I think the union and company both have a responsibility to announce cancellations of furloughs, just as they announce furloughs. It’s not a policy, it’s opinion. And because the union has specifically addressed furlough cancelation language (7/1) and numbers 12/24, it would suggest they don’t only believe it’s the company’s job to announce it.

In the end, is what it is. I’m not furloughed, soon to be or being downgraded. I just felt this downtrodden pilot group could use some good news, versus the shovels of crap we have been fed the last year.

 

Agree on all points. SPA ALPA has been pretty quiet considering everything thats going on, but that could be in part due to everyone having a foot out the door with class dates coming up elsewhere. Wasn’t my intention to be passive aggressive, that’s my bad. It’s a very fluid situation WRT the furloughs/downgrades as I’m sure the numbers will be bouncing around until the end of the month. The union will probably put something out on the 31st if I had to guess..

 

To your first point, at NK we don't really stay anywhere that is worth bragging about or even exploring for that matter. 95% of the exotic and fun destinations are a quick in and out for flight crews. We can't even get off the airplane and walk around the terminal in Colombia FFS.

Zero international layovers as of mid Feb, and the bulk of our layovers for anyone not senior are in places like Romulus, MI at an airport hotel for 14 hours. Our CBA is setup so that we don't see that many long stay layovers, which are normally downtown for the few that get built into the pairings. Everything else is close to the airport.

Every so often they might build a 30 hour RNO or something like that for a month, but it's pretty rare and it never lasts.

Trust me I feel the same as you on the subject, but it's not realistic at this company.

I can either do multi day trips with 2-3 legs per day and short layovers at an airport hotel, or I can drive to my house at the end of the day.

 

you’re leaving out some details here. Strictly NB to NB not WB.

You’re not getting 20-23 days off on a NB doing 4 day trips. Especially if youre Jr and/or on the captain side. It’s going to be usually 14-16 days of work.

Those four day trips have coast to coast redeyes built into them. with schedules that flip flop on you.

theyre not always commutable on one or both ends.

They’re harder to swap out of them. Especially if you’re JR.

You’re stuck with the same A-hole for 4 days.

There’s plenty of 3 hour airport appreciation sits.

Aircraft swaps in the hubs, with multi leg days.

10-14 hr overnights just enough time to sh#t, shower, eat, and sleep. You know there’s only so much jerking off, watching TV, and eating hotel food you can do.

There’s usually a Decently long enough van ride, and if it’s not a super long van ride it’s in a hotel right by the airport without a ton to do.
Or, you just don’t have enough time to do anything that’s why you’re there.

A solid walk through a terminal. Demanding earlier van times. Or traffic demanding (ie. NYC.)

you gotta pack 3-4 days of food unless you wanna spend money only to become a fatso.

hotel gyms usually suck.

the woman at home is b$tching you’re never there, and how kids don’t remember you because you’ve been doing this for 20 years. But hey, maybe that’s the real reason you prefer 4 days…..

I don’t disagree that 1 vs 4 days are better or worse. But, over a 30-40 year career you’ll see the ups and downs of both.

 

This just... ::chefs kiss::
The hard truth that everyone who thinks they want to be a pilot should read carefully. There is nothing worse in this industry than your little kids begging you not to leave again.

 

day trips suck so bad that most go super senior to commuters who buy hotels in base…. Taking them from those who want the home every night QOL.

I 100% would choose day trips. I’d rather spend the 30-40 min in my own car driving to and from the airport and sleep in my bed than 30-40 min or an hour waiting for the hotel van to not show then waiting for a taxi or Uber to get to a crappy hotel that didn’t even know we were coming…. And day trips limit exposure to reschedules and general Tom foolery.

maybe make 2-3 day trip pairings credit better so those who WANT the day trips can actually get them.

I 100% would pick a min credit day trip over a higher 12 credit 2 day every time. Why we don’t do 15hr 2 days I’ll never understand.

 

One thing is for sure. Whenver I jumpseat on Delta or United, the crew is usually talking about their kids, ex wives, how they are missing X Y or Z, etc ,etc.

I don't deal with much of that nor do I want to. I don't care why you got into the profession, but being gone for 4 days at a time when your first kid is 4 months old isn't going to do you any favors to your wife or your family.

I prefer 1 and 2 days and high credit/day for max efficiency and time off. I have done regionals, I have done charter 8/6, I have done survey 8 months straight. The best is those good 1-2 days and sometimes a 3 day that ends at like 11am if you can find one.

Day trips are usually super senior at legacy airlines and it is that way for a reason. Being home every night is a luxury in this profession, especially making as much as we are. (not us at F9, since we are paid 49% less, but you get the point, once we get a new CBA)

 

Whether you prefer short or long trips, you’ll have that option at a legacy.

As someone pointed out, because of multiple fleets, it’s easier to find your niche on a narrowbody at a legacy than at a LCC.

Legacy upgrade time is about 2 years across the board, so if turns go senior and that’s what you like, it’s no more than ~ 2 years away. If you don’t get turns via PBS, you can trade into them.

Someone hired at a legacy today will be making just under $200k in 2026, and well more than that in 2027, assuming he/she opts to stay as a NB FO for the superior seniority. That’s a bit of a pay cut if you’re a captain now, but you won’t be struggling to pay your bills.

I don’t know what the future holds for spirit, and I hope good things are on the horizon, but as somebody said earlier “hope isn’t a plan”.

 

Everything w/b, except for the sleep cycle and foreign TV, is better. W/b FO is the best job going. Some would argue w/b FB is better.

The best job is being the 2nd Captain on a 4 man trip - no one cares what you do AND you get the SAME pay as the Captain who's responsibile. FB doesn't trust you to load the FMC, do the walk around OR make the bunks, so you go get breakfast and stay out of the way.

Trip to Asia - #1000 reserve 777 CA to #35 777 CA flying as the relief Captain - "Bob, you should be up here. I'm a reserve guy. If you want to switch we can contact dispatch." #35 Captain - "if I wanted to be up there I would have bid it."

 

no idea where you work but I was like 99% in base and was able to manipulate my schedule to get Christmas & NYE off. One thing I’m learning really quickly is when you work for a 17,000+ pilot airline, everyone wants different things and with that much flying, there is an incredible amount of variety. 2 leg 2-days to the Caribbean or Steamboat Springs, or Orange county (these are all sitting in OT) Day trips, commutable 3&4 days, red eyes, etc. (I also could of had a line my second month out of training ). The point is, there is a lot of flexibility when it comes to flying and the layovers are actually enjoyable. Great hotels, nice destinations and longer overnights than I’m used to. My *** is definitely flying more than I did at NK but there are a lot of ways to make it work with your home life.

I say this not to be an obnoxious jagoff but to shed some light for some guys and girls who are thinking of making the Jump and are apprehensive. The transition has been way less miserable than I thought (minus the pay, the pay hit is absolutely brutal, lol)
.

lastly, for the Jersey locals. There are more day trips and 2 days in OT BY FARRRR than 3&4 day trips. Not sure if historically its always been like that at UAL