Not true at all... it all depends on the buying company and the CBA still all regulated heavily under RLA and the bankruptcy code. The bankruptcy laws have changed throughout the years and it is designed to protect labor. In the past most airlines took the pilots, but it was mostly staples and lives were ruined, laws have changed it. Of course the buying company under Chapt 11 can reject the CBA of the acquired airline and it would require a JCBA with court approval. Section 1113 highly regulates this stuff and honestly is more of a headache for the buying airline. So in reality, the buying airline under Chapt 11 is mostly likely deciding to keep the pilots BEFORE even making a deal. The the JCBA is required under the bankruptcy law. If F9 wants NK and its planes, pilots most likely will be going with the deal under chapt 11.

Now, chapt 7 is a totally different animal. That basically ends Spirit operations, court trustee takes over and NK pilots are out on the street. Ive also seen the SW rumor here, SW would take the pilots, but they would want the unions to come to an agreement as would F9. The agreement if SW took over would be something similar to AirTran (a bloodbath for NK pilots) But hey, i guess its better than Chapt 7 right? I can tell you any airline that acquires NK assets and planes WILL take the pilots and want the unions to come to an agreement and that will be bad for NK pilots, but better than being on the street without a job... These airlines managements are mostly focused on getting a DEAL and to beable to increase revenues with growth and competing with increased profibility, very little are they thinking "hmm, should we keep pilots, should we not"? employees are just a necessary expense that they know they need. They are chasing BILLIONS in new revenues, not worried about $150M or so savings in adding new pilots to their expenses. They know the unions will battle that out and worry about that stuff in the end. Revenues and growth is their main focus and with that expenses come along with that. Standard stuff here.. So understand the bankruptcy laws.. chapt 11 for unionized employees is highly regulated and complex.

BTW, I see you comment on many airline profiles multiple times per day, you have too much time on your hands, maybe you need to find yourself a woman and go get LAID! LOL

 

oh staple me daddy!!!!!

so over this…

 

RLA is only about collective bargaining. It doesn't regulate asset transfers or a requirement to take pilots with assets. Please show me a reference for your claim within the RLA.

BK laws only protect labor in so much as requiring a process for CBA restructuring instead of being able to impose new terms outright. Show me in BK laws where employees have to go with asset sales.

Nothing in your CBA about "going with planes" would be enforceable, since the asset acquiring airline isn't a party to that agreement.

ALPA merger policy is the only framework for taking and integrating pilots. It only applies in merging pilot groups. It can't force an airline to take the other airlines pilots just because it bought some of its planes. Especially when those planes would require at least a year to be fully reconfigured to be added to the fleet.

Even McCaskill-Bond doesn't require any pilots to be transferred with assets. It only provides a framework for integrating seniority lists in mergers.

Its pretty clear your personal insults against me are subterfuge to cover for your non-fact based opinion.

 

Dang....FriendlyPilot just wrecked you man...you gonna take that? Lol.

 

So does ALPA reimburse us our “merger fund” that we all had to pay into years back?

 

Was a double post…

 

Dude, go back and read what I wrote..I once never said it is required to take the pilots... I literally said from sentence 2 that "it all depends on the buying company" and below that i said " of course the buying company can reject the acquired companies CBA" all this is true, but it all needs Bankruptcy Judges approval. This was all a statement based on you saying that it happens in a merger, but this is not true because it CAN happen in an acquisition also. A bankruptcy acquisition doesn't put pilots out on the street. I literally stated that its up to the buying company. Also further below in my 2nd paragraph I stated that any airline that acquires Spirit will take the pilots because the way these big players think and CEO's think is not the way typical pilots think, these guys live in a different world and are focused on chasing Billions in new revenues because thats what they all do, from real world experience. Pilots, employees are a necessary expense. With all the court process and headaches, the company that acquires Spirit will already have decided to move forward WITH Spirit pilots before a deal is even made..in other words they already know what they are taking and they know they need the necessary expense as it is calculated and included by their CFO as they do their financial analysis and strategic assessments, all this is done BEFORE an offer is even made.

and before you respond saying "its cheaper to just hire from the bottom or its cheaper to do it this way or that way". This is not how these big players think, they actually think the opposite. While most people stare at expenses, the big players, wallstreet firms, CEO's stare at revenues first and create new ways to chase new revenues..they already know that the unions of each company will do their negotiations, their only focus is a DEAL....A F9 deal will take the pilots for sure... If we are talking about SWA, they already wanted Frontier's pilots during 363 bankruptcy, but both unions couldn't come to a deal and this was just post Great Recession and pilot market was nothing like it is today.

Whoever it will be, they will be taking the pilots. The narrative created here by a selected few is trying to scare the pilots that they will be on the street.

I guess I should have elaborated better because you made it seem that its an automatic sending the pilots onto the street during a Chapt 11 363 acquisition, which its not.

 

You may not be on the street during a 363 but you might as well be because you get stapled to the bottom of a seniority list and start from year 1 pay. So not great either way.

 

7 and 11 often end in the same result for airlines. Midway, Aloha, Evergreen all ended ceasing operations with a 7 liquidation. Skybus, Miami Air, Ravn all ended on an 11 but failed to secure further funding.

Results for all 6 of these airlines and their pilot groups was the same.

Franke isn’t going to walk in and buy this entire thing. The property has to be sold for a price higher than the lein on the property. You think Frontier has this kind of cash?



(f)The trustee may sell property under subsection (b) or (c) of this section free and clear of any interest in such property of an entity other than the estate, only if—
(1)
applicable nonbankruptcy law permits sale of such property free and clear of such interest;
(2)
such entity consents;
(3)
such interest is a lien and the price at which such property is to be sold is greater than the aggregate value of all liens on such property;
(4)
such interest is in bona fide dispute; or
(5)
such entity could be compelled, in a legal or equitable proceeding, to accept a money satisfaction of such interest.

And newsflash, Frontier with our CBA would be hemoraging money like we are. The only reason they aren’t is they are still paying their 12 year Captains Legacy FO wages. Put our pay scales on their business and they are f*cked just like we are.

 

Just to add some context, we are almost DOUBLE the size of all those carriers you mentioned COMBINED.