Originally Posted by WelcomeToBen

Exactly.. I can't figure out which work rules everybody is talking about. Transition benefits about 5% of the pilot group and our trip rigs are pathetic (trip averaging is a joke). For those who do benefit from the transition, they have to organize their entire life around the beginning and end of each month. Based on what I've been reading on the AA threads our work rules are potentially better but like Qotsaautopilot said, DAL, UAL, and most others besides Virgin and Allegiant have us beat. The only two things worth bragging about here are our red/green language and 4 days off (which is a double edged sword but that's another issue). JRM's and making deals with crew scheduling aren't work rules. All of that crap will come to an end at some point.

Originally Posted by WelcomeToBen

Exactly.. I can't figure out which work rules everybody is talking about. Transition benefits about 5% of the pilot group, our trip/duty rigs are weak, and trip averaging essentially guarantees that we never get paid for anything over block. For those who do benefit from the transition, they have to organize their entire life around the beginning and end of each month. Based on what I've been reading on the AA threads our work rules are potentially better but like Qotsaautopilot said, DAL, UAL, and most others besides Virgin and Allegiant have us beat. The only two things worth bragging about here are our red/green language and 4 days off (which is a double edged sword but that's another issue). JRM's and making deals with crew scheduling aren't work rules. All of that crap will come to an end at some point.

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy working here and would like to make it a career. I just hope we stop convincing ourselves that we have the best work rules in the industry and realize that we have a lot of work to do on this next contract. Pay rates, retirement, LTD (seriously, ours is hands down one of the worst in the industry), and higher daily min credit to name a few areas in which we lag dramatically behind our peers.

Originally Posted by ManFlex

Off the top of my head:
Delta has trip averaging, like we do (5:15 for them, 4:30 for us).
We can only work 6 calendar days in a row. Ask a Delta pilot about 'unstacking'.
We have better health care available to us than both Delta and American Airlines pilots. (Not familiar with UA)

And what's 'the double edged sword' regarding four days off between work blocks? I'm not familiar.

Look, I'm not trying to be argumentative and I've stated plainly we have some obvious work to do. Many of your criticisms are valid especially regarding pay rates, LTD and retirement. From some of these comments though, I'm left to conclude you and some others on here are ignorant of many sections of other carriers' contracts.

Originally Posted by WelcomeToBen

"Unstacking?" Please explain. Double edged sword with the 4 days off is that it results in the majority of our lines being 6 days on, 4 days off, 6 days on, 4 days off and so on. If you're junior and want weekends off, you'll get two weekends off. If you're senior and want weekends off, you'll get two weekends off. Not saying that I don't see the benefit to the 4 days off (I am a commuter), I just feel that a higher daily min and higher monthly min day off may negate the necessity of the 4 day off min. I know this is sacrilegious around these parts so it's not really worth my time getting into. My point is that it's a great work rule, but let's put it in perspective.

Trip averaging may work, if paired with a higher daily min credit like DAL but with our current 4:30 per day it results in pretty inefficient trips.

I think we're pretty much on the same page. I just get concerned when I talk with guys on the line and they think that the only thing we need to fix is our pay rates.

Originally Posted by Pilottim79

Sorry to post off topic guys. I just wanted to ask a quick question. How long do you think reserve would be for a new hire out of LAS?



If this has been answered recently...sorry.



Thanks guys.

Originally Posted by ManFlex

Off the top of my head:
Delta has trip averaging, like we do (5:15 for them, 4:30 for us).
We can only work 6 calendar days in a row. Ask a Delta pilot about 'unstacking'.
We have better health care available to us than both Delta and American Airlines pilots. (Not familiar with UA)

And what's 'the double edged sword' regarding four days off between work blocks? I'm not familiar.

Look, I'm not trying to be argumentative and I've stated plainly we have some obvious work to do. Many of your criticisms are valid especially regarding pay rates, LTD and retirement. From some of these comments though, I'm left to conclude you and some others on here are ignorant of many sections of other carriers' contracts.

Originally Posted by WelcomeToBen

"Unstacking?" Please explain. Double edged sword with the 4 days off is that it results in the majority of our lines being 6 days on, 4 days off, 6 days on, 4 days off and so on. If you're junior and want weekends off, you'll get two weekends off. If you're senior and want weekends off, you'll get two weekends off. Not saying that I don't see the benefit to the 4 days off (I am a commuter), I just feel that a higher daily min and higher monthly min day off may negate the necessity of the 4 day off min. I know this is sacrilegious around these parts so it's not really worth my time getting into. My point is that it's a great work rule, but let's put it in perspective.

Trip averaging may work, if paired with a higher daily min credit like DAL but with our current 4:30 per day it results in pretty inefficient trips.

I think we're pretty much on the same page. I just get concerned when I talk with guys on the line and they think that the only thing we need to fix is our pay rates.

Originally Posted by gonyon

The junior relief line award (the number of relief lines fluctuates) for February was around the 900 seniority mark. Anyone know the approx hire date of that seniority range?

Originally Posted by gonyon

The junior relief line award (the number of relief lines fluctuates) for February was around the 900 seniority mark. Anyone know the approx hire date of that seniority range?