About what? I don't see what gets you guys all worked up about AA's new contract.

 

Had a Spirit FO on a jumpseat from FLL. He had just finished first year pay a few months ago and seemed happy now with 2nd year pay. He did mention he didn't care about FO pay because he'd be a CA in 2 yrs or less. I can't outright judge because I don't personally know the guy but that mentality has always existed in times of quick upgrades. I'm not saying it's right but it is what it is.

 

Some people just don't get it.

 

True. But they will definitely get it if/when the upgrades stagnate.

 

I wouldn't characterize it as being " all worked up", but it's good that their rates went up as it only helps our cause.

Now, some seem to commonly compare rates like we're measuring our d**k, forgetting all the while our rules are above average (or course we'll be losing a little advantage with DL). My effective rate for my first year was almost $68 an hour, actual pay divided by flying. Obviously not everyone can use the contracts advantage or play games and I agree we shouldn't always have to. I personally would rather sacrifice on the rate a little so as to always take advantage of what we have in rules. Imho, that would be an easier sell than trying to achieve a +40% rate gain for most of our rates. And I think wall street would like it better as well as they have no idea of the money in our rules. Of course there will have to be a healthy balance for the difference of being a commuter and those living in base, not forgetting that we're always just a day away from being a commuter again.

That's just my opinion and maybe I'm just smoking crack. Of course I'm always open to a better way to skin the proverbial cat.

 

Sometimes I wonder if having the highest pay rate affects some guys' personal happiness. Rates are fluid and in this latest round who's atop the pile has changed a few times. The time for anger or despair will come if we are presented with a sub industry standard/leading TA by our negotiating committee. We haven't had our bite at the apple yet and over half of this seniority list accepted this job under the current CBA.

I agree with you, however, in that I'd rather lag AA's rates but preserve our work rules. In a perfect world, I'd have both. Management throughout the airline industry is seeking to monetize work rules as much as possible in the latest rounds of bargaining. Ours will seek the same. Management has the cash to pay these rates and seeks 'efficiency' (Distance learning, PBS, etc).I didn't become an airline pilot to work efficiently - not by the airline management definition. So I hope we remember this conversation if we are ever presented with nice rates and a garbage contract otherwise.

 

I agree 100% I've been saying it all along that our rates just need to be competitive and also our retirement...throw in scope and some other issues, too. Keeping our work rules and improving things like a min calendar day to 5.5-6 hours are important. Yes, it's sad right now that a VA CA is going to be making $40 more an hour than our 4 year CA pay and AA guys at $90 more an hour, but from what I read their work rules pale in comparison to ours.

 

Between years 3-7 an AA FO makes more than a Spirit Captain anyway (granted that Spirit CA is crediting more, but that AA FO also has the choice to go to a widebody during that time). Again rates aren't the only thing, and as mentioned, Spirit is only now approaching negotiations. Hopefully this serves as a wakeup call to those getting a little too comfortable...

 

What's third year FO pay at American? Oh yes higher than our 3rd yr ca pay. Fast upgrade is officially a moot point.

 

Don't get me wrong - I wasn't trying to flex nuts or anything. Our work rules are definitely lacking, and it's entirely possible that our QOL is about to get substantially worse as the merger progresses. I just know that when negotiating - it's nice to have some good ammunition. That way if you point to our rates and some dude with his head up management's ass says, "Well, they only get 11 days off!" - you have something to come back with.