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Old 08-26-2015, 07:48 PM   #13451  
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Originally Posted by Plane Ramrod View Post
Except that your beloved "association", unlike all other true unions is ok with someone with 30 years experience starting at the bottom. In our case for 37.50/hr. Companies don't care because it's pass/fail. FAA doesn't care as long as planes don't fall out of the sky. In this highly regulated industry there is no way to differentiate yourself (just like the socialists like it) therefore there are only two types of airline pilot. Those with knee pads and those without.
I think you misunderstood. I said "non union" carriers. You wouldn't have to worry about the socialists holding you down any more. You could truly negotiate your own worth! Just think, you could offer up a sim demonstration where you could show off your mad A320 piloting skills. Surely there are many 135 and 91 operators who would pay a premium for your skill set.
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Old 08-26-2015, 07:52 PM   #13452  
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Originally Posted by Plane Ramrod View Post
Except that your beloved "association", unlike all other true unions is ok with someone with 30 years experience starting at the bottom. In our case for 37.50/hr. Companies don't care because it's pass/fail. FAA doesn't care as long as planes don't fall out of the sky. In this highly regulated industry there is no way to differentiate yourself (just like the socialists like it) therefore there are only two types of airline pilot. Those with knee pads and those without.
This is so true and very well said!


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Originally Posted by WelcomeToBen View Post
I think you misunderstood. I said "non union" carriers. You wouldn't have to worry about the socialists holding you down any more. You could truly negotiate your own worth! Just think, you could offer up a sim demonstration where you could show off your mad A320 piloting skills. Surely there are many 135 and 91 operators who would pay a premium for your skill set.
Problem is as long as the next guy doesn't red-screen the sim and offers to do it for $1 less than the first guy, he will be hired.
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Old 08-26-2015, 07:59 PM   #13453  
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This is so true and very well said!




Problem is as long as the next guy doesn't red-screen the sim and offers to do it for $1 less than the first guy, he will be hired.
I'm confused.. I thought that was the free market. Shouldn't you guys be able to convince your employer of the value of your skill set and demand a higher price? Isn't that what you guys want?
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Old 08-26-2015, 09:50 PM   #13454  
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I'm confused.. I thought that was the free market. Shouldn't you guys be able to convince your employer of the value of your skill set and demand a higher price? Isn't that what you guys want?
In a merit-based work force, yes, which is basically all of corporate America. The hard worker, the more educated, the more willing, the more competent, the guy who brings the results, those get the promotions, pay raises, and higher starting salaries.

But in an seniority-based system, no. Unfortunately. It doesn't matter the educational background, skill, degrees, how good you work, none of that matters. Have an ATP, pass sim training, and recurrent checks, you are as equal as any other pilot at a company. This is not the case for corporate America, so you can negotiate your own pay.

Heck, I still remember being 22 yrs old with my first engineering job and negotiating my pay and time off. Was completely clueless but I still got a good deal.

You may get 11,000 per month with 16 days off, someone else would negotiate to fly more and get only 14 days off for the same 11,000. The examples are endless because it's a seniority based system that defines pay, vacation, and schedules.
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Old 08-27-2015, 02:11 AM   #13455  
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Just curious about where the non-block credit is coming from.



You sold vacation and worked a JA over it? And what's MUP? Just genuinely curious about soft time and how it worked out in this particular case.
Did not sell any vacation. I took the entire week (and the days before and after ) off.

MUP, "Move up pay" is an additional 1.5hrs per day of pay.

Everything worked In my favor, this is definitely not typical.
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Old 08-27-2015, 05:49 AM   #13456  
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Red/Green question:

A day I want to drop is red- reserve grid says 7 open periods, with 7 reserves- so, buffer is zero..... I counted the open periods in DOT- there are only 4....

How does that make sense??
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Old 08-27-2015, 05:55 AM   #13457  
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Red/Green question:

A day I want to drop is red- reserve grid says 7 open periods, with 7 reserves- so, buffer is zero..... I counted the open periods in DOT- there are only 4....

How does that make sense??
I think it might take "bleed over" from uncovered multi-day trips on preceding days into account.
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Old 08-27-2015, 06:10 AM   #13458  
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Originally Posted by Blueridge877 View Post
I think it might take "bleed over" from uncovered multi-day trips on preceding days into account.
No- I counted only 4 trips that touch that day....
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Old 08-27-2015, 06:48 AM   #13459  
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No- I counted only 4 trips that touch that day....
Red eyes count as 2-day trips, and trips that end past midnight also count as a extra day needing reserve coverage - although not for pay credit purposes.
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Old 08-27-2015, 07:02 AM   #13460  
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Originally Posted by ShyGuy View Post
In a merit-based work force, yes, which is basically all of corporate America. The hard worker, the more educated, the more willing, the more competent, the guy who brings the results, those get the promotions, pay raises, and higher starting salaries.

But in an seniority-based system, no. Unfortunately. It doesn't matter the educational background, skill, degrees, how good you work, none of that matters. Have an ATP, pass sim training, and recurrent checks, you are as equal as any other pilot at a company. This is not the case for corporate America, so you can negotiate your own pay.

Heck, I still remember being 22 yrs old with my first engineering job and negotiating my pay and time off. Was completely clueless but I still got a good deal.

You may get 11,000 per month with 16 days off, someone else would negotiate to fly more and get only 14 days off for the same 11,000. The examples are endless because it's a seniority based system that defines pay, vacation, and schedules.
In a perfect world you're right and maybe in a skilled profession this still holds true. Though in the business world it's not the case. Upward mobility is 75% office politics and 25% merit based. Also as you move up (usually not with the same company) your title improves and makes you look better on paper to the next employer willing to give you an even better title which you leverage into yet another promotion with the next company. At a certain point you don't actually do any real work, you just preside over the minions as you hope scotch from company to company. All this because you are/were good at office politics.
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