captscott26

Ok then, if those numbers are not correct, what are they? If you are indeed as smart as you have claimed to be the last 18 months then I am quite sure you have done a full financial analysis of the CBA. Please share with us specific numbers related to the financial impact of our CBA on the company.

Dilbert

Cost neutral is a funny term. For instance, I'm using my tax refund from the last 3 years to renovate my home therefor it is cost neutral. It's not of course because I had to fork out that money that was happily sitting in my bank account to pay for it.

Spirit is paying me more money every year and I'm doing the exact same thing I've been doing for the last 11 years except I get more time off now. I doubt spirit thinks it's cost neutral. (not that I care one iota what they think)

Normann

Let's not forget something very important. It is a fact that NK is paying you more each year. But just because the W2 for 2012 was bigger than the one for 2011 that does not mean you are being paid what you are worth. We (and most of us at most airlines) started out way lower than what we should be paid.

When I have worked for RAH, that asswipe piece of crap Bradford once came to a town hall meeting and told us "Why should I pay you more next year for the same job? You are not producing more next year." The answer to that one is: Because you have yet to pay us what we are worth.

- the initial investment for flight training
- 10 years of my life making $10/h on average (I should write a book about that) to get that experience
- X years on furlough
- compensation for the risk included working in one of the most unstable industries
- compensation for other risk i.e. loss of medical
- time away from home
- commuting because you can't keep a single base open long enough
... and the list goes on

That puke has yet to pay what a pilot is worth! And the same goes for Spirit!

It will take us some time and a few more contracts to close the gap. No airline has ever started out with industry average compensation. SW, DAL, etc they all had to fight one contract after the other for what they have. It will be the same for us.

If your company does well, you ask for more. If it doesn't do well they will ask for concessions.

We've made some good progress last time around considering what we are, and what the circumstances were at the time. It is definitely not a cost neutral contract. But as (and if) these guys will gain market share, we will have to ask for more and we will. If it goes the other way (i.e. oil to $150) just wait and they will be after you 401(k) like last time.

Plane Ramrod

I don't know what the numbers are, and neither does the brain-trust at ALPA finance. ALPA works with the information they are given. Garbage in, garbage out. The only ones that truly know are the BOD, Ben, and the CFO.

I have no clue
You have no clue
ALPA has no clue

captscott26

Wait, WHAT!!! Come on big guy, your gonna have to do better than that. Youve been running your mouth for a while now, please tell me you have something to share besides useless rants and rhetoric. You've been here for a long time, and you know EVERYTHING, remember. Or maybe, just maybe you have no numbers, no proof, no facts, nothing. Maybe you have just been talking out your arse.

bubi352

Can I get a refill on the popcorns?

shiftwork

let me just say... I thank each and everyone that has ever been on or held any union position(s). Personally, I think it is a thankless job and feel very fortunate that many really good individuals “step-up” and do it; THANK YOU!

Maybe some day, I'll do my "part".....

skybolt

In Spirit management terms, pilot cost is viewed in "cost per block hour". In that metric, I think that our cost per block hour over the length of this contract gives costs that are basically neutral. None of us will ever know, not me, not you, not E&FA, so arguing about it is moot. I can only speak to my personal dealings with Spirit and I assure you that they were totally focused on a cost neutral cost per block hour.

Your personal example is only a micro view, Spirit takes a macro view and from that viewpoint your 11 years is traded against a recent upgrade who upgraded into the same pay scales as C2003. The low entry wages, the increased benefits cost, the junior Captain B scale, the average longevity of the group during a period of planned growth, etc, ad nauseum; these all bring the average down and that's why I used the term cost neutral.

I'm curious about your getting more time off now, is that because of the 90 hour lines?, or because your personal bidding ability has grown during the last year of hiring?

skybolt

Deal, join us over on the super secret board and let's discuss those specifics. Or, just call me. Contrary to popular belief among the political class, I don't enter into these discussions solely in order to undermine those in power. If I wanted power, I'd never have resigned in the first place.

Plane Ramrod

I see someone's pacifier fell out again.

I'm smart enough to know not to trust the numbers the company puts out, or the analysis of those numbers compiled by accountants that couldn't get a REAL accounting job.