RP4242

^ A good laugh, but man...I hope you dont call bluffs often while playing poker.

Plane Ramrod

Only when I'm holding the cards

RP4242

Hard for me to sweat when Im the dealer of those cards and not a player in your game

sandlapper223

Ok - so simple question for us down in the trenches pilots: Why can't we execute a simple task like clean cabins or even a more basic task, like operating a flight with at least some rudementary commissary items for a 3+ hr flight?

Normann

Yeah once I figured out you are not a pilot I realized you can't. Still it is interesting to read your take on things. By the way Mega is at $208 Millions this week.

Now on to a different topic...

In a much older post you have expressed your opinion that SW+1 is not a realistic proposition for Spirit Pilots. The economics are not supporting such a raise. Since you have the numbers, and I don't, I can't argue with that.

But!

What do you say about Spirit's labor cost when it comes to pilot salaries and benefits? How does that look in terms of ASM when compared to other airlines? You don't have to tell me the answer I know it myself. It looks very very pretty.

The way I see it even if we were to get SW pay, in reality we would not. The reason is that we fly on average around 30% more people in our planes than everyone else. So Spirit is getting a 30% discount on top of our already very low pay. Especially when you look at junior (<6y longevity) pay when low longevity pilots make up 2/3rd of the company.

So... again... I do not have the numbers. I also know you can't tell us the numbers. But it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out that Spirit is getting a 2 for 1 deal on pilot compensation while they are paying market price for fuel, airplanes, gates, landing fees, etc. So if Spirit has to pay market price on everything else except labour, or else we will be in Ch11, than it is fair to say that Spirit Employees are subsidizing the business model. I mean we all love to contribute to the success of this airline and we have been for the past years... and I am soooooooo happy for our stockholders who made a fortune on the stock in the last couple of years... but I think it is time someone shows us the money.

Which leads me to this latest rumor...

So we hear these rumors about the company is testing the waters by telling our pilots that may be a quick agreement would be beneficial for us. We would leave everything else equal and untouched, and get JB pay. I made some calls, talked to reps but nobody could confirm this. Ok. Whatever. Probably BS but for the sake of argument let's say they are going to give us JB pay and leave the rest as is for a 4 year contract.

At first I said this is total BS. Why give us anything? Just negotiate for 6 years and save every dime in the meantime and then pay. But then I talked to a friend of mine (someone a lot smarter than me) and he made a great point. If Spirit gives us JB and defers negotiation for 4 years, than basically Spirit managed to Secure current JB wages (which are far from spectacular) for basically the next 10-11 years. They will get 4 years and then they get to drag it out for 6-7 years after that until the next contract. Ain't that a discount or what? Especially considering all this would happen before AA gets DAL plus 7% (I think that is the latest offer), and DAL gets whatever on top of that a year later.

I have $100 to bet that in 4-6 years we will be an even bigger success story. You seem to agree. There will be even larger profits, and even bigger airplane orders and we will get that extra 2-3% of market share. Easily. By that time we might actually get some gate space too because I am sure we will be through another recession which will result in capacity cuts at the majors.

So as of today most pilots think SW pay is unrealistic, even I think that. But if the picture I painted becomes reality, nobody is going to buy that 4-6 years down the road. Nobody! So it is indeed in Spirit's interest to close on the deal now and drag it later.

Yeah... so talking rumors... If this proposal is indeed true, I am personally going to vote it down in a hurry.

IWalkJun12

They can compare us to Alaska, not JetBlue!

JoeyMeatballs

Sorry but I'm not voting yes on a contract with JetBlue rates. We are worth much more. Call me unrealistic but JetBlue +10% would still leave me thoroughly disappointed.

81/hr for 2nd year pay is about $20/hr short from where is should be.

gonyon

It's outright embarrassing how poorly our product is executed sometimes. I am confident in the business execution but the operation blows sometimes.

I don't think there is any good excuse for it. It just needs to change. Period.

Rant complete

gonyon

+1.

I view us as on the end of the last hair of the tail of the industry bargaining cycle. Why bargain hard for last generations industry average rates? We should strive to be in the middle of the next generation contracts.

pilotpayne

Please don't go for jetBlue pay.
We all build off each other and a big raise for you would help us all.
Good luck guys.