Spirit of NKS
01-07-2015 | 05:51 PM
#9421
On Reserve
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
I don't know, the last SWA plane I junpseated on and AA plane where I was riding In the back, they were dirty. I guess it was coincidental. I don't do much traveling to be honest.
I want DAL Airbus rates, id take UAL rates, I certainly wouldn't leave here if we got Alaska rates.
Alaska rates with 12-16% DC plan and a much higher min day, sure I'd probably vote yes.
If your initial goal is JB rates, you are going to be hugely disapointed in what the TA will look like.
Talking to some guys, I'm almost shocked at how little they value themselves.........
Seems like it's a cultural thing,almost like the "cheap product" makes some people feel inadequate or makes them feel they don't deserve to be paid as much as the "classy Legacy". The same Legacy that goes in and out of bankruptcy every few years.
I want DAL Airbus rates, id take UAL rates, I certainly wouldn't leave here if we got Alaska rates.
Alaska rates with 12-16% DC plan and a much higher min day, sure I'd probably vote yes.
If your initial goal is JB rates, you are going to be hugely disapointed in what the TA will look like.
Talking to some guys, I'm almost shocked at how little they value themselves.........
Seems like it's a cultural thing,almost like the "cheap product" makes some people feel inadequate or makes them feel they don't deserve to be paid as much as the "classy Legacy". The same Legacy that goes in and out of bankruptcy every few years.
I was merely responding to a rumor that's apparently floating around. The rumor was if a TA was presented with JB/Alaska rates on or near the amendable (see what I did there gonyon?
) date, would you vote for it? I typically fly with junior captains and they for the most part seem to share your "Delta or bust" mentality when it comes to negotiations. Nothing wrong with that, but I think you may end up being the one(s) who are going to be hugely disappointed in what the TA will look like.
I'm certainly no defeatist, just a realist. Off the top of my head I can't think of or cite a single airline contract that contained 20+% pay gains on date of signing without a single concession - though I'm definitely not an airline contract history buff. Meanwhile, some here at Spirit are expecting in the neighborhood of 40% pay gains, massive improvement to retirement, significant work rule improvements and all while not making a single concession. Just look at what AA is going through right now - they're almost certainly going to have several concessions rammed down their throats just to get a 23% gain. And they're a legitimate Delta peer, not a relatively tiny up and comer like us. These things are a marathon, not a sprint. I don't think it's realistic to expect our contract to be brought up to par with fully mature, 50 or 60 year old agreements in a single negotiating cycle.
Anyway, it's nice to be in the position we're in: we know we're going to see big improvements, it's only a matter of degree, and in what areas. This will be the fifth contract vote of my career, I'm hoping I finally get a TA I can vote yes on. Good luck to us all.
01-07-2015 | 06:57 PM
#9422
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
From: A320 Captain
Lets also add that in the near term we have significant percentage of our pilot group at the bottom of the pay scale. The fact that 50% of our pilot group is currently at 3 year pay or less gives us a significant cost advantage over EVERYONE else. All the legacies have all captains and most FO's at the top of the payscale. Southwest I believe is at most junior captain at the 10-11 year mark. This coupled with your comments mean that they can pay us Southwest + and still see a cost advantage for many years to come
01-07-2015 | 07:24 PM
#9423
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
Likes: 0
I'm certainly no defeatist, just a realist. Off the top of my head I can't think of or cite a single airline contract that contained 20+% pay gains on date of signing without a single concession - though I'm definitely not an airline contract history buff. Meanwhile, some here at Spirit are expecting in the neighborhood of 40% pay gains, massive improvement to retirement, significant work rule improvements and all while not making a single concession.
AA is trying to get raises on top of the MOU raises they got just two years ago. The new contract will be north of 50% for where Usair was just two years ago.
I know this doesn't show the whole contract and pay rates aren't everything but man talk about a disparity. Pretty hard to ignore the rates proposed by AA management plus the already in place 16% retirement contribution.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/at...ans-pilots.pdf
How do you judge a peer? Same job, same plane, same airports, same airspace, same risks, more people on board.
Last edited by Qotsaautopilot; 01-07-2015 at 07:49 PM.
01-08-2015 | 03:26 AM
#9425
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 488
Likes: 0
From: 320 Left soon middle
Who said anything about an initial goal? I would expect the union's initial negotiating position will be pie in the sky asks, and the company position will be "cost neutral" or some such nonsense. I never suggested anything like starting out asking for JB rates.
I was merely responding to a rumor that's apparently floating around. The rumor was if a TA was presented with JB/Alaska rates on or near the amendable (see what I did there gonyon?) date, would you vote for it?
I typically fly with junior captains and they for the most part seem to share your "Delta or bust" mentality when it comes to negotiations. Nothing wrong with that, but I think you may end up being the one(s) who are going to be hugely disappointed in what the TA will look like.
I'm certainly no defeatist, just a realist. Off the top of my head I can't think of or cite a single airline contract that contained 20+% pay gains on date of signing without a single concession - though I'm definitely not an airline contract history buff. Meanwhile, some here at Spirit are expecting in the neighborhood of 40% pay gains, massive improvement to retirement, significant work rule improvements and all while not making a single concession. Just look at what AA is going through right now - they're almost certainly going to have several concessions rammed down their throats just to get a 23% gain. And they're a legitimate Delta peer, not a relatively tiny up and comer like us. These things are a marathon, not a sprint. I don't think it's realistic to expect our contract to be brought up to par with fully mature, 50 or 60 year old agreements in a single negotiating cycle.
Anyway, it's nice to be in the position we're in: we know we're going to see big improvements, it's only a matter of degree, and in what areas. This will be the fifth contract vote of my career, I'm hoping I finally get a TA I can vote yes on. Good luck to us all.
I was merely responding to a rumor that's apparently floating around. The rumor was if a TA was presented with JB/Alaska rates on or near the amendable (see what I did there gonyon?
) date, would you vote for it? I typically fly with junior captains and they for the most part seem to share your "Delta or bust" mentality when it comes to negotiations. Nothing wrong with that, but I think you may end up being the one(s) who are going to be hugely disappointed in what the TA will look like.
I'm certainly no defeatist, just a realist. Off the top of my head I can't think of or cite a single airline contract that contained 20+% pay gains on date of signing without a single concession - though I'm definitely not an airline contract history buff. Meanwhile, some here at Spirit are expecting in the neighborhood of 40% pay gains, massive improvement to retirement, significant work rule improvements and all while not making a single concession. Just look at what AA is going through right now - they're almost certainly going to have several concessions rammed down their throats just to get a 23% gain. And they're a legitimate Delta peer, not a relatively tiny up and comer like us. These things are a marathon, not a sprint. I don't think it's realistic to expect our contract to be brought up to par with fully mature, 50 or 60 year old agreements in a single negotiating cycle.
Anyway, it's nice to be in the position we're in: we know we're going to see big improvements, it's only a matter of degree, and in what areas. This will be the fifth contract vote of my career, I'm hoping I finally get a TA I can vote yes on. Good luck to us all.
Look at that AA TA. The CA side goes up by 10% over the 12 years. At Spirit it goes up by 85% but if I consider that nobody ever will be on 1st year CA pay and start from 3rd it still goes up by 60%.
They are not in their growth phase either. Delta did not always had industry leading wages. There was a time at SW, and it was not that long ago, when people went there to get jet time.
I don't think we will get 40%, but I sure do not want JB for 11 years to come.
01-08-2015 | 04:19 AM
#9426
Banned
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,929
Likes: 0
From: A-320
Who said anything about an initial goal? I would expect the union's initial negotiating position will be pie in the sky asks, and the company position will be "cost neutral" or some such nonsense. I never suggested anything like starting out asking for JB rates.
I was merely responding to a rumor that's apparently floating around. The rumor was if a TA was presented with JB/Alaska rates on or near the amendable (see what I did there gonyon?) date, would you vote for it?
I typically fly with junior captains and they for the most part seem to share your "Delta or bust" mentality when it comes to negotiations. Nothing wrong with that, but I think you may end up being the one(s) who are going to be hugely disappointed in what the TA will look like.
I'm certainly no defeatist, just a realist. Off the top of my head I can't think of or cite a single airline contract that contained 20+% pay gains on date of signing without a single concession - though I'm definitely not an airline contract history buff. Meanwhile, some here at Spirit are expecting in the neighborhood of 40% pay gains, massive improvement to retirement, significant work rule improvements and all while not making a single concession. Just look at what AA is going through right now - they're almost certainly going to have several concessions rammed down their throats just to get a 23% gain. And they're a legitimate Delta peer, not a relatively tiny up and comer like us. These things are a marathon, not a sprint. I don't think it's realistic to expect our contract to be brought up to par with fully mature, 50 or 60 year old agreements in a single negotiating cycle.
Anyway, it's nice to be in the position we're in: we know we're going to see big improvements, it's only a matter of degree, and in what areas. This will be the fifth contract vote of my career, I'm hoping I finally get a TA I can vote yes on. Good luck to us all.
I was merely responding to a rumor that's apparently floating around. The rumor was if a TA was presented with JB/Alaska rates on or near the amendable (see what I did there gonyon?
) date, would you vote for it? I typically fly with junior captains and they for the most part seem to share your "Delta or bust" mentality when it comes to negotiations. Nothing wrong with that, but I think you may end up being the one(s) who are going to be hugely disappointed in what the TA will look like.
I'm certainly no defeatist, just a realist. Off the top of my head I can't think of or cite a single airline contract that contained 20+% pay gains on date of signing without a single concession - though I'm definitely not an airline contract history buff. Meanwhile, some here at Spirit are expecting in the neighborhood of 40% pay gains, massive improvement to retirement, significant work rule improvements and all while not making a single concession. Just look at what AA is going through right now - they're almost certainly going to have several concessions rammed down their throats just to get a 23% gain. And they're a legitimate Delta peer, not a relatively tiny up and comer like us. These things are a marathon, not a sprint. I don't think it's realistic to expect our contract to be brought up to par with fully mature, 50 or 60 year old agreements in a single negotiating cycle.
Anyway, it's nice to be in the position we're in: we know we're going to see big improvements, it's only a matter of degree, and in what areas. This will be the fifth contract vote of my career, I'm hoping I finally get a TA I can vote yes on. Good luck to us all.
Our pay table is so lop-sided it's rediculous. The F/O pay and junior CA rates need the biggest help
01-08-2015 | 07:03 AM
#9427
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 145
Likes: 0
From: A-320 Series
If they were truly concerned about improving customer service, then they are heading in the wrong direction.
01-08-2015 | 07:36 AM
#9428
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 550
Likes: 0
From: A319, A320, A321
I dunno, I don't really see a difference between our agents that work for Spirit and agents that don't. It seems that some stations that are contract (LBE, TPA, LAS, LAX) do a great job. I bet we don't see a difference...
01-08-2015 | 07:51 AM
#9429
New Hire
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
+1. If the gate agents at LAS are any indication, then the customers will see no difference. The LAS gate agents are some of the best in the system. It is very sad that Spirit employees might be loosing their jobs, that is terrible. But a decline in service? Naw.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
