Spirit of NKS
01-07-2015, 03:17 PM
#9411
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: Under the Frog
Posts: 1,125
Good luck to all those interviewing tomorrow!
01-07-2015, 05:02 PM
#9412
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: B77FO
Posts: 105
Spirit of NKS
When do I get my iPad? Anyone know how the testing is going?
01-07-2015, 05:06 PM
#9413
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: A-320
Posts: 6,929
We have a P2P conf call tomorrow, I'll hopefully have some info
01-07-2015, 05:39 PM
#9414
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 657
Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot
All customer service agents except FLL officially notified that they will be outsourced some time in 2015. I really feel for those in ACY, DTW, and MYR. Many of them helped build this airline and this is their thank you.
This bothers me a lot. I used to work for a different lcc and right when I got hired they did the exact same thing with the gate agents, and after that everything started to go down hill. True there is a union here so we are (mostly) protected, but it was like someone walked on my grave when I heard this.
01-07-2015, 05:51 PM
#9415
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by JoeyMeatballs
I don't know, the last SWA plane I junpseated on and AA plane where I was riding In the back, they were dirty. I guess it was coincidental. I don't do much traveling to be honest.
I want DAL Airbus rates, id take UAL rates, I certainly wouldn't leave here if we got Alaska rates.
Alaska rates with 12-16% DC plan and a much higher min day, sure I'd probably vote yes.
If your initial goal is JB rates, you are going to be hugely disapointed in what the TA will look like.
Talking to some guys, I'm almost shocked at how little they value themselves.........
Seems like it's a cultural thing,almost like the "cheap product" makes some people feel inadequate or makes them feel they don't deserve to be paid as much as the "classy Legacy". The same Legacy that goes in and out of bankruptcy every few years.
I want DAL Airbus rates, id take UAL rates, I certainly wouldn't leave here if we got Alaska rates.
Alaska rates with 12-16% DC plan and a much higher min day, sure I'd probably vote yes.
If your initial goal is JB rates, you are going to be hugely disapointed in what the TA will look like.
Talking to some guys, I'm almost shocked at how little they value themselves.........
Seems like it's a cultural thing,almost like the "cheap product" makes some people feel inadequate or makes them feel they don't deserve to be paid as much as the "classy Legacy". The same Legacy that goes in and out of bankruptcy every few years.
I was merely responding to a rumor that's apparently floating around. The rumor was if a TA was presented with JB/Alaska rates on or near the amendable (see what I did there gonyon?
) date, would you vote for it? I typically fly with junior captains and they for the most part seem to share your "Delta or bust" mentality when it comes to negotiations. Nothing wrong with that, but I think you may end up being the one(s) who are going to be hugely disappointed in what the TA will look like.
I'm certainly no defeatist, just a realist. Off the top of my head I can't think of or cite a single airline contract that contained 20+% pay gains on date of signing without a single concession - though I'm definitely not an airline contract history buff. Meanwhile, some here at Spirit are expecting in the neighborhood of 40% pay gains, massive improvement to retirement, significant work rule improvements and all while not making a single concession. Just look at what AA is going through right now - they're almost certainly going to have several concessions rammed down their throats just to get a 23% gain. And they're a legitimate Delta peer, not a relatively tiny up and comer like us. These things are a marathon, not a sprint. I don't think it's realistic to expect our contract to be brought up to par with fully mature, 50 or 60 year old agreements in a single negotiating cycle.
Anyway, it's nice to be in the position we're in: we know we're going to see big improvements, it's only a matter of degree, and in what areas. This will be the fifth contract vote of my career, I'm hoping I finally get a TA I can vote yes on. Good luck to us all.
01-07-2015, 06:57 PM
#9416
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 194
Originally Posted by Et tu Bluto
My takeaway is that even given SWA pay rates, the productivity advantages our company realizes from high density seating and high aircraft utilization and other factors would still leave us short.
01-07-2015, 07:24 PM
#9417
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
Originally Posted by StinkyFinger
I'm certainly no defeatist, just a realist. Off the top of my head I can't think of or cite a single airline contract that contained 20+% pay gains on date of signing without a single concession - though I'm definitely not an airline contract history buff. Meanwhile, some here at Spirit are expecting in the neighborhood of 40% pay gains, massive improvement to retirement, significant work rule improvements and all while not making a single concession.
AA is trying to get raises on top of the MOU raises they got just two years ago. The new contract will be north of 50% for where Usair was just two years ago.
I know this doesn't show the whole contract and pay rates aren't everything but man talk about a disparity. Pretty hard to ignore the rates proposed by AA management plus the already in place 16% retirement contribution.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/at...ans-pilots.pdf
How do you judge a peer? Same job, same plane, same airports, same airspace, same risks, more people on board.
Last edited by Qotsaautopilot; 01-07-2015 at 07:49 PM.
01-08-2015, 03:26 AM
#9419
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 320*****
Posts: 487
Originally Posted by StinkyFinger
Who said anything about an initial goal? I would expect the union's initial negotiating position will be pie in the sky asks, and the company position will be "cost neutral" or some such nonsense. I never suggested anything like starting out asking for JB rates.
I was merely responding to a rumor that's apparently floating around. The rumor was if a TA was presented with JB/Alaska rates on or near the amendable (see what I did there gonyon?) date, would you vote for it?
I typically fly with junior captains and they for the most part seem to share your "Delta or bust" mentality when it comes to negotiations. Nothing wrong with that, but I think you may end up being the one(s) who are going to be hugely disappointed in what the TA will look like.
I'm certainly no defeatist, just a realist. Off the top of my head I can't think of or cite a single airline contract that contained 20+% pay gains on date of signing without a single concession - though I'm definitely not an airline contract history buff. Meanwhile, some here at Spirit are expecting in the neighborhood of 40% pay gains, massive improvement to retirement, significant work rule improvements and all while not making a single concession. Just look at what AA is going through right now - they're almost certainly going to have several concessions rammed down their throats just to get a 23% gain. And they're a legitimate Delta peer, not a relatively tiny up and comer like us. These things are a marathon, not a sprint. I don't think it's realistic to expect our contract to be brought up to par with fully mature, 50 or 60 year old agreements in a single negotiating cycle.
Anyway, it's nice to be in the position we're in: we know we're going to see big improvements, it's only a matter of degree, and in what areas. This will be the fifth contract vote of my career, I'm hoping I finally get a TA I can vote yes on. Good luck to us all.
I was merely responding to a rumor that's apparently floating around. The rumor was if a TA was presented with JB/Alaska rates on or near the amendable (see what I did there gonyon?
) date, would you vote for it? I typically fly with junior captains and they for the most part seem to share your "Delta or bust" mentality when it comes to negotiations. Nothing wrong with that, but I think you may end up being the one(s) who are going to be hugely disappointed in what the TA will look like.
I'm certainly no defeatist, just a realist. Off the top of my head I can't think of or cite a single airline contract that contained 20+% pay gains on date of signing without a single concession - though I'm definitely not an airline contract history buff. Meanwhile, some here at Spirit are expecting in the neighborhood of 40% pay gains, massive improvement to retirement, significant work rule improvements and all while not making a single concession. Just look at what AA is going through right now - they're almost certainly going to have several concessions rammed down their throats just to get a 23% gain. And they're a legitimate Delta peer, not a relatively tiny up and comer like us. These things are a marathon, not a sprint. I don't think it's realistic to expect our contract to be brought up to par with fully mature, 50 or 60 year old agreements in a single negotiating cycle.
Anyway, it's nice to be in the position we're in: we know we're going to see big improvements, it's only a matter of degree, and in what areas. This will be the fifth contract vote of my career, I'm hoping I finally get a TA I can vote yes on. Good luck to us all.
Look at that AA TA. The CA side goes up by 10% over the 12 years. At Spirit it goes up by 85% but if I consider that nobody ever will be on 1st year CA pay and start from 3rd it still goes up by 60%.
They are not in their growth phase either. Delta did not always had industry leading wages. There was a time at SW, and it was not that long ago, when people went there to get jet time.
I don't think we will get 40%, but I sure do not want JB for 11 years to come.
01-08-2015, 04:19 AM
#9420
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: A-320
Posts: 6,929
Originally Posted by StinkyFinger
Who said anything about an initial goal? I would expect the union's initial negotiating position will be pie in the sky asks, and the company position will be "cost neutral" or some such nonsense. I never suggested anything like starting out asking for JB rates.
I was merely responding to a rumor that's apparently floating around. The rumor was if a TA was presented with JB/Alaska rates on or near the amendable (see what I did there gonyon?) date, would you vote for it?
I typically fly with junior captains and they for the most part seem to share your "Delta or bust" mentality when it comes to negotiations. Nothing wrong with that, but I think you may end up being the one(s) who are going to be hugely disappointed in what the TA will look like.
I'm certainly no defeatist, just a realist. Off the top of my head I can't think of or cite a single airline contract that contained 20+% pay gains on date of signing without a single concession - though I'm definitely not an airline contract history buff. Meanwhile, some here at Spirit are expecting in the neighborhood of 40% pay gains, massive improvement to retirement, significant work rule improvements and all while not making a single concession. Just look at what AA is going through right now - they're almost certainly going to have several concessions rammed down their throats just to get a 23% gain. And they're a legitimate Delta peer, not a relatively tiny up and comer like us. These things are a marathon, not a sprint. I don't think it's realistic to expect our contract to be brought up to par with fully mature, 50 or 60 year old agreements in a single negotiating cycle.
Anyway, it's nice to be in the position we're in: we know we're going to see big improvements, it's only a matter of degree, and in what areas. This will be the fifth contract vote of my career, I'm hoping I finally get a TA I can vote yes on. Good luck to us all.
I was merely responding to a rumor that's apparently floating around. The rumor was if a TA was presented with JB/Alaska rates on or near the amendable (see what I did there gonyon?
) date, would you vote for it? I typically fly with junior captains and they for the most part seem to share your "Delta or bust" mentality when it comes to negotiations. Nothing wrong with that, but I think you may end up being the one(s) who are going to be hugely disappointed in what the TA will look like.
I'm certainly no defeatist, just a realist. Off the top of my head I can't think of or cite a single airline contract that contained 20+% pay gains on date of signing without a single concession - though I'm definitely not an airline contract history buff. Meanwhile, some here at Spirit are expecting in the neighborhood of 40% pay gains, massive improvement to retirement, significant work rule improvements and all while not making a single concession. Just look at what AA is going through right now - they're almost certainly going to have several concessions rammed down their throats just to get a 23% gain. And they're a legitimate Delta peer, not a relatively tiny up and comer like us. These things are a marathon, not a sprint. I don't think it's realistic to expect our contract to be brought up to par with fully mature, 50 or 60 year old agreements in a single negotiating cycle.
Anyway, it's nice to be in the position we're in: we know we're going to see big improvements, it's only a matter of degree, and in what areas. This will be the fifth contract vote of my career, I'm hoping I finally get a TA I can vote yes on. Good luck to us all.
Our pay table is so lop-sided it's rediculous. The F/O pay and junior CA rates need the biggest help
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