Originally Posted by ManFlex

I agree with most of what WelcometoBen said above, however, living in base will always be more profitable for the pilot. Being able to go to work overtime on short notice will as well. That is true at Spirit as well as at Delta, United, etc. As a junior captain, I probably get called on 75% of my days off to work extra. I typically don't, but money is there for the taking.

All that being said, yes: pay rates and retirement contribution need to come up. And that is irrespective of work rule changes. Change those at all to our detriment and the price increases dramatically. I have no doubt that 90% of the group will be satisfied with our next agreement.

Originally Posted by WelcomeToBen

I don't know who these guys are who are able to credit over 100 hours on a consistent basis but I can tell you I've certainly never met any in person. As a commuter, it is nearly impossible to credit anything over 85 hours unless you are willing to completely sacrifice your personal life. I have been here for 18 months and have yet to credit more than 90 hours in a month while typically crediting between 72 and 80 hours.

Yes, I've heard stories of guys that live in base and sit on the phone with crew scheduling 24/7 crediting an egregious amount of hours but this is certainly not the norm (and also not really helping out the rest of the pilot group but that's another argument). It's also not the way I hope most of us want to live our lives in order to make what United and Delta A320 pilots are making.

The point is, although transition conflict and some of our other work rules are nice, they need to be supplemented with more important things such as a stronger trip rig (at least 5.25 hours per calendar day) and industry standard A320 pay. Without those two things, we will all be spending the rest of our careers sitting on the phone with crew scheduling begging for open time at straight pay and taking ourselves down to 4 days off per month just to make what are brothers and sisters at United and Delta are making.

Don't get me wrong. I love it here and really would like to make a career of Spirit. We have some great work rules. We also have some severe deficiencies (pay, trip rigs and retirement) and I think some guys like to try to justify those deficiencies with things such as the transition conflict. The transition conflict is great and I think we should keep it, but we shouldn't have to count on it every single month in order to credit 120 hours so that we can make the same amount as our A320 peers who only need to credit 80 hours per month to make the same amount of money. In my 18 months here, I've experiences a whopping 3 transition conflicts, 2 of them on RSV which if you actually follow the contract, you'll know that you cannot pick up open time in order to credit above guarantee.

If we are going to make some gains in the next contract, we need to quit living in fantasy land and admit that we have some serious deficiencies. Yes, Spirit is a great place to work and we have some good work rules but seriously guys, let's be real. We have some work to do.

Originally Posted by WelcomeToBen

I understand the fact that it will always be more profitable to live in base. I was merely trying to relay the ability of a commuter to make money at Spirit. It's extremely difficult to credit over 85 hours as a commuter. My point is, you shouldn't have to live in base in order to make what our peers make. Those who choose to live in base are inherently more flexible and will always have more earning power than those who choose to commute. The reality is that commuters at Spirit generally make far less than our peers who commute to jobs at United and Delta while Spirit pilots who live in base may be able to "work the system" and make close to comparable pay.

On another note, what are you guys who count on multiple JRM's and cutting deals with crew scheduling to make ends meet going to do when the company is fully staffed? The company will eventually figure out how to maximize efficiency and the JRM's and sweetheart deals with crew scheduling will inevitably come to an end. They have already figured out how to make every single line 72 hours and 15 days off and they are getting better and better at avoiding conflicts.

My point is that we as a pilot group cannot count on transition conflict and JRM's as part of our compensation. They are great when they work out, but we shouldn't need them in order to make comparable pay and have a sensible amount of days off.

Originally Posted by ManFlex

I hear your frustration. Remember, we have a contract signed in 2010. Every legacy has negotiated a new contract since ours was signed. Sleep well knowing pay and retirement are going to increase substantially. In 2010, US Airways A320 captain pay topped out at $125/hr. A330 Captain pay at US Airways topped out in the low $160's/hr. They also had pathetic workrules. It's important to remember that context when viewing 35 aircraft, Spirit Airlines, agreeing to $185/hr A320 Captain rates in 2010. Large gains will be made and the industry is better this time around. The anchor that US Airways was on everyone's collective bargain position is no more.

Originally Posted by WelcomeToBen

I agree completely. What the Spirit pilot group was able to do with contract 2010 was truly impressive and we have those guys to thank for the position we are in today. I have nothing but respect for what those guys were able to accomplish in that environment.

That being said, I just sometimes get the feeling that as a pilot group we have a tendency to get a little defensive and are sometimes hesitant to admit any deficiencies with our current contract. It seems like a fair amount of guys have convinced themselves that our contract is leaps and bounds ahead of United and Delta (especially with regard to work rules) when that is not necessarily the case.