Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot

Some interesting discussion happening here.

Just one thing I noticed is that people keep focusing on merger protection with scope. That is important but we don't have to merge with frontier (or Ryan air or easyjet or any airline for that matter) to codeshare with them. We have zero codeshare protection except for a frozen seniority list with no furloughs. Ask a JetBlue pilot how code sharing is working out for them. Ask them how many of their passengers connect to a widebody on some other airline. Ask a delta pilot about their air France joint venture. Ask a southwest pilot the number one reason they voted no.

Originally Posted by Plane Ramrod

No airline would subject their passengers to nk customer service, seat pitch, and filthy cabins and put their name on the ticket. That being said, code share protection should be an easy get in negotiations.

Originally Posted by 9inches

Before you agree to disagree, reread my post above ;-) Maybe you missed where I stated maximizing base compensation (which includes your insurance and other benefits) "ON THE $$ FRONT, that is." Never did I state look at only one thing ;-). Just the opposite.

I stated we should focus on the things that benefit all pilots equally (think trunk of tree) before getting caught up in the things that may or may not affect all pilots, or affect them in different ways (read branches). Does insurance, min guarantee, min days off, merger protection, etc. affect all pilots in just about the same magnitude? You betcha!

OT rates, reserve swapping, trip rigs, etc, while important, are examples of things that will affect different pilots in different ways. Obviously we will all (hopefully) look at any agreement in its entirety prior to voting, but different items will have different value to different pilots. We need to focus on the big ticket items first (the "trunk") prior to getting bogged down in the small stuff ("branches"). Just like when you negotiate a home. You first negotiate the price (most substantial aspect, of most impact to both parties), then you negotiate the important but less significant items such as title insurance, repairs, survey, leaseback, closing date, etc.

At the end of the day, both parties only sign if they feel they're getting a good deal out of it. So the trick is to give away--for a price--only what you would've been ready to give away for free in the first place (because it doesn't truly benefit you). All about appearance. Because nobody likes one-sided negotiations, if you approach something as take, take, take, you're guaranteed the other side is gonna dig in, and you'll end up losing out on gains for stuff that benefits you the most...


Sent from Airbus

Originally Posted by RonnyK320

I've noticed the total number of pilots on the current base bid keeps dropping by a pilot every other day or so. I realize that could be for a number of reasons, but it's definitely good for us if guys are leaving to go to other airlines, and I have a feeling that's what's happening...

Originally Posted by GWY320

One of the pilots that has left was in the recent December 7th new hire class.

Originally Posted by Chimpy

Where'd he/she go?

Originally Posted by Plane Ramrod

No airline would subject their passengers to nk customer service, seat pitch, and filthy cabins and put their name on the ticket. That being said, code share protection should be an easy get in negotiations.