Originally Posted by Springfield

OK, I don't work at JetBlue, yet. I flew left seat heavy aircraft in the Air Force and have 6000 hours of 121 time. Say I'm willing to fly A320s at JetBlue for $170 an hour. Please tell me who prevents management from hiring me to do exactly that.

Originally Posted by BeatNavy

You’re missing a really big part of why unions are necessary for airlines. In every other profession, your skills and experience go with you. If company X isn’t paying you enough, you can go to company Y and you can start at or above your current pay and position. In the airline world, if after 5 or 10 years working at airline x, the aren’t paying enough, you can’t go to your same seat/longevity at airline Y. You are beneath even the most junior guy who started there before you. That, coupled with being held under the RLA which absolutely handcuffs us and works in management’s favor, requires unions to be able to negotiate and improve pay/QOL and fight to improve things where you are. Free market forces can’t work in the airline pilot world. Without union support, companies have a huge advantage on an uneven playing field.

Originally Posted by BeatNavy

You’re missing a really big part of why unions are necessary for airlines. In every other profession, your skills and experience go with you. If company X isn’t paying you enough, you can go to company Y and you can start at or above your current pay and position. In the airline world, if after 5 or 10 years working at airline x, they aren’t paying enough, you can’t go to your same seat/longevity at airline Y. You are beneath even the most junior guy who started there before you. That, coupled with being held under the RLA which absolutely handcuffs us and works in management’s favor, requires unions to be able to negotiate and improve pay/QOL and fight to improve things where you are. Free market forces can’t work in the airline pilot world. Without union support, companies have a huge advantage on an uneven playing field.

Originally Posted by tonsterboy5

I get that the Big 3 and UPS and FedEx pay more than JB, if you are trying to say thats a reason that unions are better look at places like Spirit, and frontier along with just about every unionized LCC or ACMI, then compare what your pre-union company was really up against. JB will increase pay regardless of the union due to market demands

Originally Posted by Av8tr1

I worked in IT for many years before going to the airlines. Not one of my employers had unions. I made well over 6 figures in IT. My first professional job in IT had a salary in the high 5 figures. It would be comparable to a regional FO job but with much better pay. As I moved up in my career I was able to leave every job for a higher paying job. Still no union.

Pay was based on market demand. During the Y2K and the dot.com days companies were offering car leases as part of sign on bonuses. I had many companies pay 100% of my medical benefits. Other than my college education 100% of my training was paid for by my employer. That included single occupancy rooms at good hotels, all meals paid for and a rental car should I choose. In most cases the employer would have paid for my college education too. Still no union.

I never had to negotiate for anything on my job and raises were regular and expected based on specific criteria in the employee manual. I also got additional raises based on merit.

All without a union.

To be clear I am not advocating to get rid of all unions in aviation. I am only advocating for pilots to have a choice. But I suspect the unions are afraid of that.

I do see the benefits of collective bargaining but I don’t think without it we will see an apocalypse. In fact I think if the seniority system went away airlines will increasingly fall over over themselves to poach pilots from competing airlines. We are already seeing this with bonuses for prior 121 time at many regionals. If things continue the way they are we will likely see legacies doing the same.

Originally Posted by Bluedriver

Wait a minute. Why can't we compare ourselves to DL, UAL, AA, SWA and FedEx? To big? Then why do you say we have to compare ourselves to airlines 1/3 our size, one of which was nearly bankrupt not long ago?

Give me a break.

Originally Posted by tonsterboy5

You are right in the middle of them. In regards to just about everything, business model, size, and pay. The big 3 have it better due to a different business model. I hate to break it but how many jet blue flights are chocked full of cargo flying over the ocean to Asia?

Originally Posted by jtrain609

Union members, during a union contract vote, arguing about how they shouldn't have to be in a union.

We're a disgrace.