symbian simian

I almost wished there were more none union airlines, but strangely enough, after a few years of the rugged individuals achieving industry leading pay and benefits, the slackers end up voting the union in.....

For all the heroes who made JB captain pay AND got a company car while being in IT/CEO/NASA, you miss one important distinction. Being the best gets you further up the ladder in virtually any career, even if you don't change companies, because promotions are (or at least should be) based on merit. You can take your experience and get a great job somewhere else at more than first year pay.
As an airline pilot you need all that experience and qualifications to get hired but from that point you have to follow SOP. There is only one way to do your job: the company way. There is nothing extra really, and definitely nothing less you can do. This strict adherence to SOP has led to most years in the USA having NO fatalities, whereas the hospitals kill about 250.0000 per year. Doctors can take their expertise to another state if they are fired for medical malpractice, because there is no FMA that requires a check ride every 6 months,or requires a company to do a 10 year background check to hire anyone. These and other things make it much harder for pilots to be mobile, so most companies have adopted seniority as the preferred system for advancement. You can argue it's not fair, but I'm sure that for every example of someone getting screwed by seniority, I can show you an example of someone getting screwed by not being buddies with the chief pilot.
As for unions, I don't care if you say necessary or necessary evil, but if you think not required I hope you can take some time and read up on Ryanair. It started as a great company to work for, and as pilots became more available, turned into a crappy place to go to. The only people who tried to improve would get fired, they started hiring people on zero hour contracts. Every one had to pay for Typeratings. People are getting bypassed for upgrade, because DEC... Guess what: union drive in progress.

Yes, union takes 2% of my pay. They also negotiated a 34% raise, will defend me if I **** of the chief pilot because I don't want to fly fatigued/into Bogota without APU/without catering on a 5 hour flight, use my commute policy EVERY TIME I COMMUTE.
I almost wish I could have helped the union haters get a non-union pilot job at NK before we got our marginal contract and see how much better they would have done (before getting fired and replaced by a another guy willing to do it for 20% less).

SonicFlyer

You're on the right track.

There is no reason for a fire department to be socialized. They should be private.

SonicFlyer

Here is a start:

- having more money taken out of our paycheck

- having the money taken out of our paycheck sent to causes and politicians we disagree with

- groupthink / collectivist mentality is a turnoff





Now... that being said, unions do perform an imperative function when it comes to safety.

jcountry

Politicians do us no favors. The money we give them is 100% wasted.

That last part is important.

So important that I will never work for a non-union airline. I used to think that it wasn’t so important, but then a horrible guy showed up in mgmt at my last airline. He pulled all sorts of stuff to try and get people to fly stuff which was illegal or dangerous. Without a union, he would have fired folks who disagreed with his level of safety.

ThePenguin328

How do you feel about pay liability insurance? Union dues are the same thing in my eyes, as well as the cost of administering the current contract I work under. Lawyers, arbitrations, and administrative staff to keep everything organized isn't free.

ALPA does NOT send dues money to any political organizations or politicians. There is a separate fund called the PAC for political lobbying efforts.

Yeah, having a unified pilot group is a waste. Better to have 12,700 independent contractors going about their individual daily routine.

Schedule with safety.....that I can agree with 100%

I've read all 7 pages of this thread so far and just shake my head at the total self centered type A BS on display. I just spent the last 7 years working for a non-union airline, trust me that's not a place you want to spend a career: DECs, investigations with no representation, no recourse for scheduling errors, policy changes when the FNG manager decides, and then more DECs because the pay is too low and no one wants to sign an FO contract.

Flytolive

Thinking? Is that what you call it?

It is a choice WRT pilot unions. First, the majority decides if they want a union or to get rid of an existing union. Majority rules, Do you have a problem with that?

Even when the majority decides to have a union as their collective bargaining agent any individual pilot can elect to be a non-member, but they have to pay their portion of the costs to negotiate the contract from which they benefit.

Mesabah

I wouldn't get too worried, Management would have to shed the RLA before they tried this stunt. We are still closed shop due to the RLA, and Right to Work does not apply.

WhistlePig

The only money that is sent to politicians is the money you elect to contribute to the PAC. I have no doubt you do not do that. Lesson over.

Bluedriver

Your paycheck, in aviation, would be much smaller without a union genius!

Ask me how I know!

SonicFlyer

Here is the word of the day:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fungible