Originally Posted by FAULTPUSH

That's a lie - FAPA said that they could bring the whole EXCO if they wanted, just not reps from national.

Originally Posted by FlyGirl007

Not true. Sizzle is correct.

Originally Posted by FlyGirl007

Not true. Sizzle is correct.

Originally Posted by ToiletDuck

I'm sure if your points are valid the votes will show that.

Originally Posted by zoooropa

Ask Pat to explain this email....

"On Jun 7, 2011 10:54 AM
>> > Pat,
>> >
>> > Our members are familiar with IBT and 747 (some were under it). They would like to hear from you, not national, on how 357 is run and how you envision the future. You're welcome to bring another ExCo member, but CA Bourne was intentionally not invited for this session.
"

The Local 357 wants to claim that they are "nearly an independant union", however when the cards on the table the Local 357 will not participate unless the "international union" is present.

I feel sorry for the 357 membership. You guys are being played by the IBT. Keep funding their pensions.
Keep throwing away $700,000 annually for nothing.

Originally Posted by EXCO

It was sold to me as an open forum discussion, at the last minute I had restrictions put on me. I will not walk into their "hostile" enviornment for a set up or an ambush. I'm more than happy to meet with their group on mutually agreeable terms. I will talk to any Frontier pilot any time. What I won't do is put up with high school antics. They want me to come to their headquarters to meet with a "hostile" crowd to talk about the Teamsters, but not allow me to bring anyone from the Teamsters to address their concerns. If I felt the meeting was to truly talk about my vision for our group under Local 357, I would have gladly shown up. Unfortunately this is not the impression I got from our conversations.

Why does FAPA not want all of the players who have been in all of the meetings in a room at the same time in front of their group? What do they have to fear or hide? Let's have an open and honest discussion.

Below is the entire email chain:

From: pat gannon [mailto:*********@******.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 3:26 PM
To: Trevor J*****
Cc: Jeff T****; Dave B****; Scott G****
Subject: Re: DEN Meeting
- Hide quoted text -



Gentleman,

I assumed this meeting was intended to be an open forum for all pilots to attend so they could ask whatever questions need answers. I think the teamsters need to answer some tough questions.

Jeff had already warned me that I would be facing a hostile crowd, which is understandable. I was hoping to have an honest discussion with all of the players. I'm sure claims will be made that I can't speak to as I have not been involved in all of the meetings.

Unfortunately I think I will politely decline your invitation. If you want to meet at a later date, without restrictions, please let me know.

Thanks,

Pat

On Jun 7, 2011 1:51 PM, "Trevor J*******" <trevor*j*****@*****.com> wrote:
> Pat,
>
> We haven't met yet, but I look forward to it. I know that you are respected
> among your Republic peers and can appreciate the time and work that you are
> putting forth on their behalf. I also appreciate the breath of fresh air
> that the creation of 357 and it's leadership has been to your pilot group.
>
> Our FAPA membership wants to hear from *you*. They don't want a history
> lesson, they want a future lesson. Evidenced by recent polling, they are
> overwhelmingly supportive and satisfied with their FAPA representation.
> They need to hear from you how 357, not national, will do it better.
>
> I look forward to meeting you tomorrow and coordinating the opportunities to
> speak with your pilot group as well. Please let me know if I can help you
> with transportation or any logistics for tomorrow.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Trevor Jenkins
> ***.***.****
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 10:18 AM, pat g******<p*g*****@****.com> wrote:
>
>> Scott,
>>
>> I would think your membership would like to hear about the restructuring of
>> the airline division. If I were them I would want answers about 747
>> straight from the horse's mouth.
>>
>> We should have people there able to answer all questions. Doug T**** is
>> the trustee of our local and has a lot of the history as well; therefore, I
>> feel he should be there as well.
>>
>> Pat
>> On Jun 7, 2011 10:54 AM, "Scott G*****" <scottg@f9****.org> wrote:
>> > Pat,
>> >
>> > Our members are familiar with IBT and 747 (some were under it). They
>> would
>> > like to hear from you, not national, on how 357 is run and how you
>> envision
>> > the future. You're welcome to bring another ExCo member, but CA Bourne
>> was
>> > intentionally not invited for this session.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Scott
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: pat g***** [mailto*g********@******.com]
>> >> Sent: Monday, June 06, 2011 8:37 PM
>> >> To: Jeff T*****
>> >> Cc: Scott G*****; Trevor J*****; Dave B******
>> >> Subject: Re: DEN Meeting
>> >>
>> >> Jeff,
>> >>
>> >> I told Dave B****** about our meeting on the 8th. He would like to attend
>> > as
>> >> well so he can answer the questions about 747 and the airline division
>> and
>> >> what changes have been made within the Teamsters structure to ensure a
>> >> Gene Sowell situation will never happen again.
>> >>
>> >> Pat
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 1:14 PM, Jeff T****** <jef**@******.net> wrote:
>> >> > Pat
>> >> >
>> >> > Wednesday, June 8 at 1500 MDT at the FAPA office will work. We have
>> >> another event later that evening for our pilots but this should provide
>> > you an
>> >> hour or two with our members.
>> >> >
>> >> > Trevor J******, our DEN domicile rep will coordinate this with you as
>> > well as
>> >> your efforts to arrange us to meet with Republic pilots. Trevor can be
>> >> reached via Trevor*@f9****.org and his cell phone is ***-***-****. He
>> > will
>> >> be in touch with you today.
>> >> >
>> >> > Jeff T
>> >> >
>> >> > On Jun 4, 2011, at 7:34 PM, pat gannon wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Thanks Jeff, I'll look for the email tomorrow. I'm already going to
>> >> >> be on the road visiting with our folks, but can reschedule to go
>> >> >> where you want.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Jeff T*****<jef**@*******.net>
>> wrote:
>> >> >>> the 8th might work...we are working on that date and also on the
>> >> >>> locations to meet with your guys...should be back to you by
>> tomorrow.
>> >> >>> JT
>> >> >>> On Jun 3, 2011, at 10:34 PM, pat g***** wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Jeff,
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Will the 8th work for you for a membership meeting in Denver?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Also, where do you want to meet with our guys?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Pat

Originally Posted by Mulva

Still haven't found the "ignore" button. It's gotta be on here somewhere. So let me phrase things in a way more suitable to your tastes TD.

What I am trying to say TD, is that regardless if it right or wrong (probably wrong), there are going to be 700ish unhappy pilots joining your ranks. Let's be real about this, we (F9/FAPA) got our arses handed to us in the SLI and STS decisions. Not even close to what we imagined or thought (again, right or wrong) was reasonable. That being said, too bad for us, right? You guys have all the cards here and can play them however you want to. I'll need to eventually accept my fate and live with all of this (most likely I'll just bail all together on the airline biz). It's a tough pill to swallow for all of us over here. It makes it even tougher seeing what a good job the IBT has done of brainwashing you guys into accepting everything you hear or are told. I know from personal experience that not all of the "native" RAH pilots have yours, SLUMLAVs or STINKYs attitudes (just to name a few). I RARELY see a "native" RAH pilot post anything positive about anything. You guys come across as militant, inflexible and arrogant if I may say so. Many of us at Frontier have bent over backwards over the past week or so trying to bang any minute particle of reason into your heads which all seem firmly planted in the sand. It's totally unbelievable!

How am I doing so far TD? Getting a little under your skin? Should I bust out the RJP terminology that I took so much flack having fun with 3 months ago? Nah, I won't go their because, for most of you, it's not a fair representation of your (not yours) professionalism.

So where was I? Oh yeah, trying to express how fracked up this situation is and how attitudes, arrogance, stubbornness and ignorance are going to make it worse. I'm a pretty normal levelheaded guy who just enjoys flying for a living. I can accept my fair share of disappointment which I have done and will continue to do. But right now, I'll be honest with you, I'm pi$$ed. There are a lot of good people over here at Frontier having a lot of $hi+ pulled out from under them. Many of us would like to help make things better. Again, I didn't know about the RPC until less than 2 weeks ago. When I learned about it (yes, I actually drove an hour on a day off to spend 2 hours asking questions, etc.) I felt that this could be something that MIGHT have a chance in ending this non-sense. Maybe we could get you guys to give just a little, throw us a bone, give this lowlife group of pilots a dignified way to ease our way into your country club. Let us be part of the process, not kicking us to the curb like a bunch of trash.

It was a nice try. I know that 700 of us over here are evidently stupid enough to think this is a reasonable idea. Maybe, some of the more reasonable pilots in your group might feel the same. I'm really not holding out hope, but I'd like to think that there is some empathy and honesty left in this situation. Probably not.

Anyway, many of you are seriously misinformed about EVERYTHING, and right now the RPC is on the top of that list. You already know what you want, you're not willing to listen to any other option. No effort to "cross the aisle" or even contemplate it. Doesn't work so well in Congress does it? So the days are counting down to the end of the Evildoers know as FAPA. The great International Brotherhood of Teamsters will soon take a victory lap while rubbing each of our noses into it, never ONCE, taking a moment to think about the consequences related to their "victory". Me and my 700ish brothers and sisters are willing to work with you to ease the sting, but in our continued moments of weakness, you simply want to crush us and then give us a big hug and say "welcome to the family". You are delusional if you think everything is going to be A-OK after June 28th. The vocal RAHbros response to an honest effort to find some common ground looks to have been essentially ignored. That's your and your IBT357's call. Good luck with it, because, as pi$$ed off as this whole process has made you, we are that more pi$$ed. How do you think this is all going to work out now if everyone at Frontier feels this way? It is going to be a disaster of epic proportions.

You TD are a lost cause (if not just for the sheer amount of time you spend perusing this miserable site), but many of your fellow co-workers may not want to continue down the "battle path" that has been ingrained in your head. I think I'll sign off before I say something really stupid. I'm sure my brother F9 A319 wishes he could reign me in before I hit the "submit" button. Ain't gonna happen.

Before I go; to all the reasonable people at RAH, please accept my apologies in advance if you have felt insulted by anything I said. It is not aimed at you, just the vocal minority present on these boards. And to my F9bros, this probably won't help the cause one bit, but I'm not sure how else to convey the message.

Originally Posted by ToiletDuck

Mulva there's no real point in your banter so I'll just say this. There's a difference with people not being happy with their company and not being happy with their union. Our local, compared to what it was under the 747, has been doing a great job. They have my support in it's entirety which was not easily won. I'm sure if your points are valid the votes will show that.