Originally Posted by Fishfreighter

What I don't get is why the ALPA haters either can't or won't understand this simple concept.

Originally Posted by golfandfly

Most of our failures aren't ALPA nationals fault, but those of our own MECs and pilot groups.

Originally Posted by Fishfreighter

What I don't get is why the ALPA haters either can't or won't understand this simple concept.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

If most failures are due to the fault of the particular MEC and pilot group...what is ALPA doing for the 2% dues money?

This is a very easy question Fishfreighter, so try to focus on an answer that actually pertains to the question.

Carl

Originally Posted by eaglefly

This statement only strengthens my points. Either ALPA national was so worthless that they were unable to properly guide those that fall under their umbrella (local MEC's and pilot groups), in which case they're no better then an independent union as the results were the same and thus no point in having them -or- they CHOSE to guide those groups in a direction that was in THEIR best interest.

It's clueless to think national sits back and has no influence on the MEC's, letting them jump or fall over any cliff of their choice. The fact is, ALPA is a business in and of itself and the purpose of a business is profit (or at least self-sustainance). The top fatcats compensation packages are quite enviable indeed and FAR more compensation then deserved considering their results.

Perhaps you could do a little research and enlighten us all ? Specifically, could you find out what financial sacrifices have been made in Herndon over the last 10 years while the majority of airline pilots have seen their profession decimated to complete shambles with the career now relegated to little more then Greyhound drivers under ALPA's WATCH ?

I'll bet virtually NONE. Oh sure, the top tier freight guys have done well, but those flying passengers have been hosed six ways till Tuesday. Come to think of it, Fed Ex is the only decent place around besides SWA and UPS and those AREN'T ALPA are they ?

If you want to be ALPA's bugle blower, that's fine, but those about to fall into the trap deserve another POV.

You're not worried ALPA will be sued spitless into BK or financially collapse under their own lard requiring them to double your dues are you ?

Seems to me, that would be one motive to whistle a happy Herndon tune and why not ?

Self-interest is what got ALPA where it is today.

Originally Posted by golfandfly

I'd say that any future legislation concerning Flight/Duty periods will be shaped by ALPA to some degree. I'd say amendments to exempt certain carriers were shaped by ALPA.

Originally Posted by golfandfly

Like it or not, lobbies (MONEY) shape legislation. ALPA has the money, the independents don't. I'm not saying they will win versus the air carriers, but they will certainly do better than a few independent unions that don't pay squat for political lobbies....

Originally Posted by golfandfly

Again, I am not in the ALPA fan club, but if you have a better alternative, tell me about it.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

ALPA CAVED on FT/DT. ALPA ended up SUPPORTING the ADDITION of up to 2 additional hours of duty for a two man crew. They shaped it all right. They shaped it to give management the ability to do coast to coast turnarounds all in one duty time.

ALPA also caved in on the 1500 hour rule after stating they were in complete support of it. I could go on.



Given the above, you might think that ALPA's money is being given to them by management.





Given what happened to TWA pilots and given the fact that a merger with AMR is a strong likelihood for JetBlue, I'd rather see you KNOWING who your bargaining agent is really working for.

Carl

Originally Posted by eaglefly

This statement only strengthens my points. Either ALPA national was so worthless that they were unable to properly guide those that fall under their umbrella (local MEC's and pilot groups), in which case they're no better then an independent union as the results were the same and thus no point in having them -or- they CHOSE to guide those groups in a direction that was in THEIR best interest.

It's clueless to think national sits back and has no influence on the MEC's, letting them jump or fall over any cliff of their choice. The fact is, ALPA is a business in and of itself and the purpose of a business is profit (or at least self-sustainance). The top fatcats compensation packages are quite enviable indeed and FAR more compensation then deserved considering their results.

Perhaps you could do a little research and enlighten us all ? Specifically, could you find out what financial sacrifices have been made in Herndon over the last 10 years while the majority of airline pilots have seen their profession decimated to complete shambles with the career now relegated to little more then Greyhound drivers under ALPA's WATCH ?

I'll bet virtually NONE. Oh sure, the top tier freight guys have done well, but those flying passengers have been hosed six ways till Tuesday. Come to think of it, Fed Ex is the only decent place around besides SWA and UPS and those AREN'T ALPA are they ?

If you want to be ALPA's bugle blower, that's fine, but those about to fall into the trap deserve another POV.

You're not worried ALPA will be sued spitless into BK or financially collapse under their own lard requiring them to double your dues are you ?

Seems to me, that would be one motive to whistle a happy Herndon tune and why not ?

Self-interest is what got ALPA where it is today.

Originally Posted by golfandfly

You keep talking about ALPA as it's the only entity dealing with political issues. How about SWAPA, APA, or the IPA? Why are all legislative failures associated with ALPA?

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

ALPA also caved in on the 1500 hour rule after stating they were in complete support of it.

Originally Posted by jayray2

The ALPA national position seems to change quite a bit. Who knows what their position even is, what is their position on scope? At one time they supported the 1500 hour rule then the next thing you know they release some publication and deep in the details is their proposed amendment allowing for people to get their ATP with only 750 hours. Whose side is ALPA on? Why would I give money to the PAC when I don't know where ALPA stands on issues? Why don't they ever poll their members to see what the membership thinks?