Contract talks
12-01-2019 | 09:32 AM
#101
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
You might want to give your rep a call to see where we're at with Section 1 negotiations. A lot of people are NOT going to be happy, and I'm not talking about management.
12-01-2019 | 09:33 AM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,209
Likes: 6
From: 777
You can’t take it back unless you give something in exchange. B scale? You willing to work for regional pay? B scale us where this all started. Pilots said no to B scale. Regionals were born. It’s not that simple but it’s pretty darn close. So what do you have left that you can sacrifice?
There is no quid pro quo in negotiations--unless you fall for that drivel. You are worth what you can negotiate. If you make a gain, there is nothing that says you have to give something up. This is the best time in airline history.
I want it all. Is that realistic? No. You don't have to give to get, but it does require patience.
12-01-2019 | 10:38 AM
#103
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Ok, all you new guys, and some of you old heads need to listen up.
There is no quid pro quo in negotiations--unless you fall for that drivel. You are worth what you can negotiate. If you make a gain, there is nothing that says you have to give something up. This is the best time in airline history.
I want it all. Is that realistic? No. You don't have to give to get, but it does require patience.
There is no quid pro quo in negotiations--unless you fall for that drivel. You are worth what you can negotiate. If you make a gain, there is nothing that says you have to give something up. This is the best time in airline history.
I want it all. Is that realistic? No. You don't have to give to get, but it does require patience.
12-01-2019 | 10:39 AM
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,032
Likes: 18
You can’t take it back unless you give something in exchange. B scale? You willing to work for regional pay? B scale us where this all started. Pilots said no to B scale. Regionals were born. It’s not that simple but it’s pretty darn close. So what do you have left that you can sacrifice?
12-01-2019 | 12:39 PM
#105
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 926
Likes: 19
From: B777 CA
I don’t believe I’ve seen this point talked about yet, if so apologize for posting again.
Does anyone think is strange at this point and time - almost a year past the amendable date and negotiating almost two years since we opened early. We are not in mediation with the NMB yet? Either side can unilaterally file an application with the NMB for mediation and that usually starts the mediation process.
Historically, mediation significantly slows the process down. Additionally, in the end game the NMB usually pressures both sides to meet in the middle on any outstanding items. This would mean ALPA would have significant pressure to concede and move toward the company on scope.
So why hasn’t the company petitioned the NMB for mediation? I believe because they don’t have a-lot of time, at least not as much as as they normally do.
We have approximately 70 less 70/76 seaters then DAL and 140 less then AA. The company needs more 70/76 seaters to effectively compete with AA and DAL. The 550 is just a gimmick or niche airplane and the company knows it. So it doesn’t solve the 70/76 equation for them. Otherwise we’d be in mediation now or in the very near future to drag out this process. The fact that we are still in facilitated negotiations (outside the NMB process) with the facilitator having no real power, tells me the company needs a deal and we do have a stick. How big a stick, I’m not sure. But no mediation requests by the company needs to be looked at as to why not?
Does anyone think is strange at this point and time - almost a year past the amendable date and negotiating almost two years since we opened early. We are not in mediation with the NMB yet? Either side can unilaterally file an application with the NMB for mediation and that usually starts the mediation process.
Historically, mediation significantly slows the process down. Additionally, in the end game the NMB usually pressures both sides to meet in the middle on any outstanding items. This would mean ALPA would have significant pressure to concede and move toward the company on scope.
So why hasn’t the company petitioned the NMB for mediation? I believe because they don’t have a-lot of time, at least not as much as as they normally do.
We have approximately 70 less 70/76 seaters then DAL and 140 less then AA. The company needs more 70/76 seaters to effectively compete with AA and DAL. The 550 is just a gimmick or niche airplane and the company knows it. So it doesn’t solve the 70/76 equation for them. Otherwise we’d be in mediation now or in the very near future to drag out this process. The fact that we are still in facilitated negotiations (outside the NMB process) with the facilitator having no real power, tells me the company needs a deal and we do have a stick. How big a stick, I’m not sure. But no mediation requests by the company needs to be looked at as to why not?
12-01-2019 | 01:26 PM
#106
Banned
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,358
Likes: 0
Ok, all you new guys, and some of you old heads need to listen up.
There is no quid pro quo in negotiations--unless you fall for that drivel. You are worth what you can negotiate. If you make a gain, there is nothing that says you have to give something up. This is the best time in airline history.
I want it all. Is that realistic? No. You don't have to give to get, but it does require patience.
There is no quid pro quo in negotiations--unless you fall for that drivel. You are worth what you can negotiate. If you make a gain, there is nothing that says you have to give something up. This is the best time in airline history.
I want it all. Is that realistic? No. You don't have to give to get, but it does require patience.
12-01-2019 | 02:09 PM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 4,083
Likes: 0
From: CRJ9 CA
Well said. 9/11 gave the airlines a big stick and they beat us to a pulp with it. They took full advantage of a bad time in the industry. This however is probably one of the best times for pilots and there is no reason to give anything up. The flip side is that our legal options leave a much smaller stick to use to make demands. I’d agree, it isn’t realistic for us to expect to give them the beating that they gave us, but if we're patient, we will get a much better deal than if we get in a hurry. The big hang up is scope. It’s working. Let’s just let them choke on it for a while.
12-01-2019 | 02:10 PM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 4,083
Likes: 0
From: CRJ9 CA
Now you are getting somewhere. Keep this train rolling.
I don’t believe I’ve seen this point talked about yet, if so apologize for posting again.
Does anyone think is strange at this point and time - almost a year past the amendable date and negotiating almost two years since we opened early. We are not in mediation with the NMB yet? Either side can unilaterally file an application with the NMB for mediation and that usually starts the mediation process.
Historically, mediation significantly slows the process down. Additionally, in the end game the NMB usually pressures both sides to meet in the middle on any outstanding items. This would mean ALPA would have significant pressure to concede and move toward the company on scope.
So why hasn’t the company petitioned the NMB for mediation? I believe because they don’t have a-lot of time, at least not as much as as they normally do.
We have approximately 70 less 70/76 seaters then DAL and 140 less then AA. The company needs more 70/76 seaters to effectively compete with AA and DAL. The 550 is just a gimmick or niche airplane and the company knows it. So it doesn’t solve the 70/76 equation for them. Otherwise we’d be in mediation now or in the very near future to drag out this process. The fact that we are still in facilitated negotiations (outside the NMB process) with the facilitator having no real power, tells me the company needs a deal and we do have a stick. How big a stick, I’m not sure. But no mediation requests by the company needs to be looked at as to why not?
Does anyone think is strange at this point and time - almost a year past the amendable date and negotiating almost two years since we opened early. We are not in mediation with the NMB yet? Either side can unilaterally file an application with the NMB for mediation and that usually starts the mediation process.
Historically, mediation significantly slows the process down. Additionally, in the end game the NMB usually pressures both sides to meet in the middle on any outstanding items. This would mean ALPA would have significant pressure to concede and move toward the company on scope.
So why hasn’t the company petitioned the NMB for mediation? I believe because they don’t have a-lot of time, at least not as much as as they normally do.
We have approximately 70 less 70/76 seaters then DAL and 140 less then AA. The company needs more 70/76 seaters to effectively compete with AA and DAL. The 550 is just a gimmick or niche airplane and the company knows it. So it doesn’t solve the 70/76 equation for them. Otherwise we’d be in mediation now or in the very near future to drag out this process. The fact that we are still in facilitated negotiations (outside the NMB process) with the facilitator having no real power, tells me the company needs a deal and we do have a stick. How big a stick, I’m not sure. But no mediation requests by the company needs to be looked at as to why not?
12-01-2019 | 02:12 PM
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 4,083
Likes: 0
From: CRJ9 CA
Were you here for 9/11? There was no "exchange," management went on a drunken orgy of TAKING. They took EVERYTHING that wasn't nailed down because they knew it was a once in a lifetime chance to slice and gut. It was disgusting to watch so, yeah, I'm now interested in TAKING some of it back.
12-01-2019 | 02:25 PM
#110
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 4,083
Likes: 0
From: CRJ9 CA
Co: we can’t compete - AA and DL have more 76 seaters
Pilots: you already have relief. Bring on a new SNB and you can add them.
Co: too expensive. Give us a break.
Pilots: ok then you can have all you need. Bring them in house. There are pilots flying them now - hire them.
Co: but but but .....
At best this is an impasse. If it made sense for the co to do so they would have taken the easy road.
Pilots: you already have relief. Bring on a new SNB and you can add them.
Co: too expensive. Give us a break.
Pilots: ok then you can have all you need. Bring them in house. There are pilots flying them now - hire them.
Co: but but but .....
At best this is an impasse. If it made sense for the co to do so they would have taken the easy road.
I don’t believe I’ve seen this point talked about yet, if so apologize for posting again.
Does anyone think is strange at this point and time - almost a year past the amendable date and negotiating almost two years since we opened early. We are not in mediation with the NMB yet? Either side can unilaterally file an application with the NMB for mediation and that usually starts the mediation process.
Historically, mediation significantly slows the process down. Additionally, in the end game the NMB usually pressures both sides to meet in the middle on any outstanding items. This would mean ALPA would have significant pressure to concede and move toward the company on scope.
So why hasn’t the company petitioned the NMB for mediation? I believe because they don’t have a-lot of time, at least not as much as as they normally do.
We have approximately 70 less 70/76 seaters then DAL and 140 less then AA. The company needs more 70/76 seaters to effectively compete with AA and DAL. The 550 is just a gimmick or niche airplane and the company knows it. So it doesn’t solve the 70/76 equation for them. Otherwise we’d be in mediation now or in the very near future to drag out this process. The fact that we are still in facilitated negotiations (outside the NMB process) with the facilitator having no real power, tells me the company needs a deal and we do have a stick. How big a stick, I’m not sure. But no mediation requests by the company needs to be looked at as to why not?
Does anyone think is strange at this point and time - almost a year past the amendable date and negotiating almost two years since we opened early. We are not in mediation with the NMB yet? Either side can unilaterally file an application with the NMB for mediation and that usually starts the mediation process.
Historically, mediation significantly slows the process down. Additionally, in the end game the NMB usually pressures both sides to meet in the middle on any outstanding items. This would mean ALPA would have significant pressure to concede and move toward the company on scope.
So why hasn’t the company petitioned the NMB for mediation? I believe because they don’t have a-lot of time, at least not as much as as they normally do.
We have approximately 70 less 70/76 seaters then DAL and 140 less then AA. The company needs more 70/76 seaters to effectively compete with AA and DAL. The 550 is just a gimmick or niche airplane and the company knows it. So it doesn’t solve the 70/76 equation for them. Otherwise we’d be in mediation now or in the very near future to drag out this process. The fact that we are still in facilitated negotiations (outside the NMB process) with the facilitator having no real power, tells me the company needs a deal and we do have a stick. How big a stick, I’m not sure. But no mediation requests by the company needs to be looked at as to why not?
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