3900 (if not more)
08-01-2020 | 10:10 AM
#121
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,599
Likes: 205
From: 787
Pardon? You really need to read up on the BK process because you don't understand it very well.
You think that going through the Chap 11 process is amazing? For whom? It sucks for everyone including management. And especially creditors and line employees.
And if there isn't a legitimate case for Chap 11, the man in the black dress will throw it out and not allow the company to file.
Chap 11 is a long sucko process and let's hope that no airline has to go through it. However, before United gets to that point, there will be others who will have already filed, including from my estimation at least one ULCC and one LCC. So if anyone thinks that ULCCs/LCCs are doing OK, they really need to pull up each airline's Q2 (lack of) earnings. They're all as bad as United. Some quite a bit worse.
You think that going through the Chap 11 process is amazing? For whom? It sucks for everyone including management. And especially creditors and line employees.
And if there isn't a legitimate case for Chap 11, the man in the black dress will throw it out and not allow the company to file.
Chap 11 is a long sucko process and let's hope that no airline has to go through it. However, before United gets to that point, there will be others who will have already filed, including from my estimation at least one ULCC and one LCC. So if anyone thinks that ULCCs/LCCs are doing OK, they really need to pull up each airline's Q2 (lack of) earnings. They're all as bad as United. Some quite a bit worse.
we said the same thing Andy.
08-01-2020 | 10:22 AM
#122
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,213
Likes: 14
From: guppy CA
You keep saying that if (more likely when) United shrinks to a shadow of its former self, it's out of business. I disagree with that assessment. Many of those debts and expensive assets are shed during the process.
And the rules have changed in the last few years, giving management less control over the process.
And the rules have changed in the last few years, giving management less control over the process.
08-01-2020 | 11:13 AM
#123
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,599
Likes: 205
From: 787
You keep saying that if (more likely when) United shrinks to a shadow of its former self, it's out of business. I disagree with that assessment. Many of those debts and expensive assets are shed during the process.
And the rules have changed in the last few years, giving management less control over the process.
And the rules have changed in the last few years, giving management less control over the process.
08-01-2020 | 12:38 PM
#124
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,209
Likes: 6
From: 777
This is all heading toward a whole industry collapse. When that happens, the rules get thrown out the window. A remote, but distinct possibility would be the entire industry is nationalized, and put back together again from the surviving pieces. What survives wont' resemble anything like the separate airlines we have now.
I would not be surprised if this happened on a larger scale in some of the Asian countries.
I would not be surprised if this happened on a larger scale in some of the Asian countries.
08-01-2020 | 01:10 PM
#126
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,639
Likes: 0
It all depends, but generally speaking not much.
The list is the list and one will get recalled in seniority order and BK does not change that.
If there is a merger one still gets recalled in the order of the merged list. And the merged list itself is determined by arbitration, which uses a different methodology for ALPA-ALPA mergers and non-ALPA mergers.
For example, in the case of the UAL/CAL ALPA-ALPA merger the pilots on furlough the day the merger was announced all ended up within a couple percentage points on the merged list compared to their pre-merger list. The senior pilots were still senior and the junior pilots were still junior.
The list is the list and one will get recalled in seniority order and BK does not change that.
If there is a merger one still gets recalled in the order of the merged list. And the merged list itself is determined by arbitration, which uses a different methodology for ALPA-ALPA mergers and non-ALPA mergers.
For example, in the case of the UAL/CAL ALPA-ALPA merger the pilots on furlough the day the merger was announced all ended up within a couple percentage points on the merged list compared to their pre-merger list. The senior pilots were still senior and the junior pilots were still junior.
08-01-2020 | 01:32 PM
#127
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,599
Likes: 205
From: 787
This is all heading toward a whole industry collapse. When that happens, the rules get thrown out the window. A remote, but distinct possibility would be the entire industry is nationalized, and put back together again from the surviving pieces. What survives wont' resemble anything like the separate airlines we have now.
I would not be surprised if this happened on a larger scale in some of the Asian countries.
I would not be surprised if this happened on a larger scale in some of the Asian countries.
08-01-2020 | 03:08 PM
#130
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,599
Likes: 205
From: 787
