TA Discussion
09-17-2020, 07:00 AM
#161
New Hire
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 3
It is time to call it as it is
I'm really surprised to see the lack of honorable leadership with this AIP.
Regardless of seniority all pilots in the seniority list have equal rights correct? Or not?
Divide and conquer ah!
Well then if ultimately the pilot group decides to consider a modification to the current contract, it can be done, or even passed, especially if the reason is to keep the most junior pilots from furlough. But if there is any modification to the contract whether to gain something or to give something (like a portion of a MPG) it should be done equally like the way union dues are paid and not in an arbitrary way and disproportionate way.
I would like to bring to light that pilots in the A or B group (regardless of seniority) should not be thinking that if this is voted in, they will somehow be paying for the salaries of the pilots in the so called C group. That will not be true. Actually, if this is voted in, as it is proposed, the most junior pilots will be carrying the burden of several benefits to the majority of senior pilots with their MPG reduction.
The fact is that by voting this in. The vast majority of pilots in the A and B groups will be benefiting by not downgrading, no displacements, no unwanted base changes and commutes, the added potential benefit of having a bigger workforce, and even the fact that they will continue to be for the most part at home if they choose to do so
while the bottom pilots will be doing most of the work.
So whether the group can stay as it is or we are faced with the need for furloughs, whether we do amendments to our contract or not, or any other situation now or later, please do what you think is best or ultimately do what you want, but do it with integrity and truth and do it honorably.
We have a lot of ex-military pilots as well as many honorable lifetime civilian pilots and no one came here asking for charity, we all came here to work in our profession by the rules the company and under rules the pilot group had accepted on the contract.
No one here as more rights than other besides what it is already in the contract and regardless of seniority, no one is or should be treated as a second class citizen.
Why is it that no one is opposing the framework that has been proposed to effectively divide our group?
And just as a last coment, the truth is the truth, regardless of where it comes from.
Regardless of seniority all pilots in the seniority list have equal rights correct? Or not?
Divide and conquer ah!
Well then if ultimately the pilot group decides to consider a modification to the current contract, it can be done, or even passed, especially if the reason is to keep the most junior pilots from furlough. But if there is any modification to the contract whether to gain something or to give something (like a portion of a MPG) it should be done equally like the way union dues are paid and not in an arbitrary way and disproportionate way.
I would like to bring to light that pilots in the A or B group (regardless of seniority) should not be thinking that if this is voted in, they will somehow be paying for the salaries of the pilots in the so called C group. That will not be true. Actually, if this is voted in, as it is proposed, the most junior pilots will be carrying the burden of several benefits to the majority of senior pilots with their MPG reduction.
The fact is that by voting this in. The vast majority of pilots in the A and B groups will be benefiting by not downgrading, no displacements, no unwanted base changes and commutes, the added potential benefit of having a bigger workforce, and even the fact that they will continue to be for the most part at home if they choose to do so
while the bottom pilots will be doing most of the work.
So whether the group can stay as it is or we are faced with the need for furloughs, whether we do amendments to our contract or not, or any other situation now or later, please do what you think is best or ultimately do what you want, but do it with integrity and truth and do it honorably.
We have a lot of ex-military pilots as well as many honorable lifetime civilian pilots and no one came here asking for charity, we all came here to work in our profession by the rules the company and under rules the pilot group had accepted on the contract.
No one here as more rights than other besides what it is already in the contract and regardless of seniority, no one is or should be treated as a second class citizen.
Why is it that no one is opposing the framework that has been proposed to effectively divide our group?
And just as a last coment, the truth is the truth, regardless of where it comes from.
09-17-2020, 07:06 AM
#162
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 255
Originally Posted by LGsailor
I'm really surprised to see the lack of honorable leadership with this AIP.
Regardless of seniority all pilots in the seniority list have equal rights correct? Or not?
Divide and conquer ah!
Well then if ultimately the pilot group decides to consider a modification to the current contract, it can be done, or even passed, especially if the reason is to keep the most junior pilots from furlough. But if there is any modification to the contract whether to gain something or to give something (like a portion of a MPG) it should be done equally like the way union dues are paid and not in an arbitrary way and disproportionate way.
I would like to bring to light that pilots in the A or B group (regardless of seniority) should not be thinking that if this is voted in, they will somehow be paying for the salaries of the pilots in the so called C group. That will not be true. Actually, if this is voted in, as it is proposed, the most junior pilots will be carrying the burden of several benefits to the majority of senior pilots with their MPG reduction.
The fact is that by voting this in. The vast majority of pilots in the A and B groups will be benefiting by not downgrading, no displacements, no unwanted base changes and commutes, the added potential benefit of having a bigger workforce, and even the fact that they will continue to be for the most part at home if they choose to do so
while the bottom pilots will be doing most of the work.
So whether the group can stay as it is or we are faced with the need for furloughs, whether we do amendments to our contract or not, or any other situation now or later, please do what you think is best or ultimately do what you want, but do it with integrity and truth and do it honorably.
We have a lot of ex-military pilots as well as many honorable lifetime civilian pilots and no one came here asking for charity, we all came here to work in our profession by the rules the company and under rules the pilot group had accepted on the contract.
No one here as more rights than other besides what it is already in the contract and regardless of seniority, no one is or should be treated as a second class citizen.
Why is it that no one is opposing the framework that has been proposed to effectively divide our group?
And just as a last coment, the truth is the truth, regardless of where it comes from.
Regardless of seniority all pilots in the seniority list have equal rights correct? Or not?
Divide and conquer ah!
Well then if ultimately the pilot group decides to consider a modification to the current contract, it can be done, or even passed, especially if the reason is to keep the most junior pilots from furlough. But if there is any modification to the contract whether to gain something or to give something (like a portion of a MPG) it should be done equally like the way union dues are paid and not in an arbitrary way and disproportionate way.
I would like to bring to light that pilots in the A or B group (regardless of seniority) should not be thinking that if this is voted in, they will somehow be paying for the salaries of the pilots in the so called C group. That will not be true. Actually, if this is voted in, as it is proposed, the most junior pilots will be carrying the burden of several benefits to the majority of senior pilots with their MPG reduction.
The fact is that by voting this in. The vast majority of pilots in the A and B groups will be benefiting by not downgrading, no displacements, no unwanted base changes and commutes, the added potential benefit of having a bigger workforce, and even the fact that they will continue to be for the most part at home if they choose to do so
while the bottom pilots will be doing most of the work.
So whether the group can stay as it is or we are faced with the need for furloughs, whether we do amendments to our contract or not, or any other situation now or later, please do what you think is best or ultimately do what you want, but do it with integrity and truth and do it honorably.
We have a lot of ex-military pilots as well as many honorable lifetime civilian pilots and no one came here asking for charity, we all came here to work in our profession by the rules the company and under rules the pilot group had accepted on the contract.
No one here as more rights than other besides what it is already in the contract and regardless of seniority, no one is or should be treated as a second class citizen.
Why is it that no one is opposing the framework that has been proposed to effectively divide our group?
And just as a last coment, the truth is the truth, regardless of where it comes from.
09-17-2020, 07:07 AM
#163
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 177
Originally Posted by disenchantMINT
I won't argue with you either way on that. We will see what happens. But I was responding to the post that suggests the deal should be supported because it costs the company more. Very poor logic there.
09-17-2020, 07:10 AM
#164
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: The GF of FUPM
Posts: 3,073
"Notwithstanding Section 5-B-1, the LPA for each group within a Category shall be determined by the Company and shall not have a lower bound"
Sounds like....."Enjoy that puny paycheck! Oh, and we're going to furlough eventually anyway"
(Insert Lucy holding the football here)
Sounds like....."Enjoy that puny paycheck! Oh, and we're going to furlough eventually anyway"
(Insert Lucy holding the football here)
09-17-2020, 07:19 AM
#165
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 392
Originally Posted by guppie
aside from postponing and possibly preventing furloughs....
FC deadhead. (Just like the good ole days)
non-profile reserves (just like the good ole days)
cancelled displacements (just watch how fast those pay protected good deal Charlie’s get put back in their seat)
very obtainable 5% raise for a 5% profit margin. That’s damn near $300/hr for a Guppie!!
C’mon man. I get it. FPLD. Don’t get fooled again... but we’re in a sheet show like no other, and this is BETTER than doing nothing.
FC deadhead. (Just like the good ole days)
non-profile reserves (just like the good ole days)
cancelled displacements (just watch how fast those pay protected good deal Charlie’s get put back in their seat)
very obtainable 5% raise for a 5% profit margin. That’s damn near $300/hr for a Guppie!!
C’mon man. I get it. FPLD. Don’t get fooled again... but we’re in a sheet show like no other, and this is BETTER than doing nothing.
I’m slowly coming around to a yes vote. I think the company will furlough 3900 of this fails - we’ve all seen the TSA numbers, and most of those are probably low leisure fares. We simply have a product no one wants.
This TA, while not perfect, allows us to go further down the road, and retire more people.
09-17-2020, 07:39 AM
#166
New Hire
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 3
Thinking outside the box
first post....from a fairly senior guy (1100)....so I missed the first early out by 2 months birthdate. This option will let 655 other guys like me leave and the trickle down off my seat (777Ca) would save numerous guys at the bottom. Multiply times 655. And the furloughs offset 8 months to give recovery time.
just my 2 cents.....worth thinking about a YES.....not to miss helping out 3900 young guys as well....it's not just about me right?
just my 2 cents.....worth thinking about a YES.....not to miss helping out 3900 young guys as well....it's not just about me right?
09-17-2020, 07:39 AM
#167
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 255
Originally Posted by jumppilot
You were a serious no vote a week ago - what changed for you?
I’m slowly coming around to a yes vote. I think the company will furlough 3900 of this fails - we’ve all seen the TSA numbers, and most of those are probably low leisure fares. We simply have a product no one wants.
This TA, while not perfect, allows us to go further down the road, and retire more people.
I’m slowly coming around to a yes vote. I think the company will furlough 3900 of this fails - we’ve all seen the TSA numbers, and most of those are probably low leisure fares. We simply have a product no one wants.
This TA, while not perfect, allows us to go further down the road, and retire more people.
09-17-2020, 08:01 AM
#169
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 425
Originally Posted by LGsailor
I'm really surprised to see the lack of honorable leadership with this AIP.
Regardless of seniority all pilots in the seniority list have equal rights correct? Or not?
Divide and conquer ah!
Well then if ultimately the pilot group decides to consider a modification to the current contract, it can be done, or even passed, especially if the reason is to keep the most junior pilots from furlough. But if there is any modification to the contract whether to gain something or to give something (like a portion of a MPG) it should be done equally like the way union dues are paid and not in an arbitrary way and disproportionate way.
I would like to bring to light that pilots in the A or B group (regardless of seniority) should not be thinking that if this is voted in, they will somehow be paying for the salaries of the pilots in the so called C group. That will not be true. Actually, if this is voted in, as it is proposed, the most junior pilots will be carrying the burden of several benefits to the majority of senior pilots with their MPG reduction.
The fact is that by voting this in. The vast majority of pilots in the A and B groups will be benefiting by not downgrading, no displacements, no unwanted base changes and commutes, the added potential benefit of having a bigger workforce, and even the fact that they will continue to be for the most part at home if they choose to do so
while the bottom pilots will be doing most of the work.
So whether the group can stay as it is or we are faced with the need for furloughs, whether we do amendments to our contract or not, or any other situation now or later, please do what you think is best or ultimately do what you want, but do it with integrity and truth and do it honorably.
We have a lot of ex-military pilots as well as many honorable lifetime civilian pilots and no one came here asking for charity, we all came here to work in our profession by the rules the company and under rules the pilot group had accepted on the contract.
No one here as more rights than other besides what it is already in the contract and regardless of seniority, no one is or should be treated as a second class citizen.
Why is it that no one is opposing the framework that has been proposed to effectively divide our group?
And just as a last coment, the truth is the truth, regardless of where it comes from.
Regardless of seniority all pilots in the seniority list have equal rights correct? Or not?
Divide and conquer ah!
Well then if ultimately the pilot group decides to consider a modification to the current contract, it can be done, or even passed, especially if the reason is to keep the most junior pilots from furlough. But if there is any modification to the contract whether to gain something or to give something (like a portion of a MPG) it should be done equally like the way union dues are paid and not in an arbitrary way and disproportionate way.
I would like to bring to light that pilots in the A or B group (regardless of seniority) should not be thinking that if this is voted in, they will somehow be paying for the salaries of the pilots in the so called C group. That will not be true. Actually, if this is voted in, as it is proposed, the most junior pilots will be carrying the burden of several benefits to the majority of senior pilots with their MPG reduction.
The fact is that by voting this in. The vast majority of pilots in the A and B groups will be benefiting by not downgrading, no displacements, no unwanted base changes and commutes, the added potential benefit of having a bigger workforce, and even the fact that they will continue to be for the most part at home if they choose to do so
while the bottom pilots will be doing most of the work.
So whether the group can stay as it is or we are faced with the need for furloughs, whether we do amendments to our contract or not, or any other situation now or later, please do what you think is best or ultimately do what you want, but do it with integrity and truth and do it honorably.
We have a lot of ex-military pilots as well as many honorable lifetime civilian pilots and no one came here asking for charity, we all came here to work in our profession by the rules the company and under rules the pilot group had accepted on the contract.
No one here as more rights than other besides what it is already in the contract and regardless of seniority, no one is or should be treated as a second class citizen.
Why is it that no one is opposing the framework that has been proposed to effectively divide our group?
And just as a last coment, the truth is the truth, regardless of where it comes from.
09-17-2020, 08:05 AM
#170
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 328
Originally Posted by JimLaheyTPS
My displacement isn’t going to be cancelled and I’d be taking a pay cut to allow someone junior to me with a furlough notice in hand to keep NB CA pay as a NB FO. If I truly understand that carve out correctly that’s a big no for me. I will not support a pardoned furloughee to make more than me regardless of him/her taking the upgrade when I could have.
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