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Old 04-07-2021, 07:54 PM   #191  
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Originally Posted by LabDad06 View Post
A couple of your posts are coming off as disingenuous and painting all white male pilots as racist. As you said, "lets all try to do better" because that's flat out BS. I noticed you didn't care to respond to my direct quote of you as well.

I posted this in a different thread, though the same content:
When I was deployed in Afghanistan I didn't care what my crewmembers looked like, where they were from, what color their skin was, or what they had between their legs. Do they know their job? Do they do it well? Do I trust them? Can I count on and rely on them? That's all I cared about then, and now. When some of our helicopters were getting shot up and one shot down, sex or race or anything else didn't matter, only that we worked well together as a team to get back to base safely while successfully carrying out the mission. There were minorities and women in my company that I would choose to be on my crew in a heartbeat over some of the white guys. But never once did I want a crew because of their race or sex, but rather on their ability and who they were.

That applied then and applies now. I've flown with women and minorities, including black captains and first officers. The captains, had no issues with at all. The FO was outstanding and I told him such, especially for his hour level. Not outstanding as a black pilot, but only as a pilot. Nobody wants to keep women and minorities out of flying. What they want to keep out is BS racist and sexist hiring practices in the name of diversity while potentially sacrificing safety by hiring less experienced pilots due to what is on their skin or between their legs.

I read a post from a Southwest pilot who summed it up well. He didn't care who he flew with because he knew all the pilots had 1000 TPIC, he knew they all had the hours and experience, and he knew they earned the privilege of being there at Southwest. I knew the same from the military because we all went through the same training, same courses, same everything. If you aren't up to it in the military, you won't fly.

Why is it hard to for you to see the other side of the argument, as I laid out in my last post (posted below), and others without playing on emotion? Instead you respond with racist accusations of white pilots toward other posters.

If I understand the overall frustration and objection to this... I don't think anyone would have a problem if airlines or the entire aviation industry set out to encourage and educate women and minorities to get into aviation and become pilots. I doubt anyone would have an issue if they gave grants and scholarships to women and minorities to back up that genuine interest in making it a more diverse industry. Where I believe the perceived problem is, is with public companies saying they will discriminate against hiring white males and instead hire females and minorities in their place, with a pre set quota, while realistically knowing they will hire less experienced pilots in the name of diversity and potentially sacrificing safety. That's my take on many of the responses here, but I may be wrong. YMMV.
I appreciate your thoughtful post. Didn't see the other one you quoted. Typing on a phone so pardon the grammatical, spelling errors etc....

I understand your frustration. I hear you when you say you feel like you are being discriminated against. I just can't figure out how. You, (I assume you are a white male) are still getting 50% of the opportunity. Everyone else has to split 50% of the opportunity. These are not jobs until you pass the aviate interview. I imagine the off the street hiring will still be whatever it is now (I imagine 85% based on nothing more than my informal assumptions based on the people I see in the crew room, training center, and in the right seat). How is 50 % of the new thing, plus 85% 9f the old thing unfair to you assuming everyone has equal qualifications? It doesn't add up to me.

I'm always interested in dialogue and would love for it to be explained to me in a way that is logical and makes sense. As I said I'm willing to learn and grow. If you're not growing, you're dieing. I know I've been doing this for a while and I've heard every story you can imagine about "if I were a woman or minority, I would have been at mainline years ago with just 1500 hours.". It took me a hell of a lot more than that. I don't hear nearly the amount about interns or senior check airmen getting their offspring hired well below competitive minimums. Why do you suppose that is? Anyway, I don't suppose we are going to change each other's minds in this thread. We have to listen to each other though and empathize with each other. We are all in this country and on this planet together. We all bleed red, laugh, cry, hurt, etc.... You know what I'm saying.

Good luck if you work here, beers on me once I'm fully vaccinated. Until then stay safe and let's all try to do better.
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Old 04-07-2021, 08:01 PM   #192  
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We need more Pakistani airbus and Indonesian 737 pilots. That'll fix it.
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Old 04-07-2021, 08:14 PM   #193  
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Are you implying earning an FAA certificate does not equate to having competency? If so, your aggression should be taken up with the FAA standards department, not the minorities that could fly just as well, or better than you. Some of the best pilots I have ever flown with have been women and people of color. So keep talking that nonsense BOIII!
There is something that heavily gets overlooked here. All the angry white males on here that have an issue with all genders and all minority backgrounds getting hired, youíve just revealed something important about what you are saying.

The fact that you immediately assume the minorities and women to be hired, being less qualified than you without even knowing their qualifications. THAT makes you a racist.

There will be plenty talent in the future. Women and minorities now more than ever have the ability to have this wonderful career that us white overprivileged males have enjoyed for so long!
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Old 04-07-2021, 08:22 PM   #194  
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I would be happy to see every race and gender pursue a dream of becoming a pilot. If this program is focused on getting more people interested in aviation, great. Iím a white male at a regional. When it comes time for that main line interview, Iím just going to check a few extra boxes on the race/sex questionnaire.
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Old 04-07-2021, 08:43 PM   #195  
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Originally Posted by DALFA View Post
If 80% of the applicants are white males then why should only 50% of those hired be white males? Wouldn't it just make sense to forget about peoples race and sex all together and just judge an application based on merits?

Does being a female make you a better or safer pilot?

Does being a minority make you a better or safer pilot?

This entire notion that diversity is better and that we're gonna impose quotas to have more diversity is absolutely insane.
The whole idea of this initiative is to get a more diverse group of applicants. Right now itís 80% but if United gets other than white men into flight training who might not otherwise afford it or have ability to attend flight training the numbers will slowly change. There are so few minorities in flight training and United wants to change that. They will still require time at a regional or similar experience to move on.
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Old 04-07-2021, 08:49 PM   #196  
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Have you ever heard of this crash by a company named Colgan Air? Yea, both pilots were white, and they are kinda the reason for the brutal ATP mins we have now.
And one was a female.
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Old 04-07-2021, 08:58 PM   #197  
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You all need to go look at South Africa and see how BEE ( Black economic empowerment) has worked out for the country. This is just the beginning. I understand and support it if they are giving minorities opportunities, but as others have said , if you are giving preferential to the actual hiring of individuals based on skin color or gender, thatís BS.

I was born a white male in South Africa and had to leave my entire damn family to move to another country to get a job as a pilot. I would never have the opportunity to be a pilot in the country I was born because I am white.

This will trickle down into other industries Guarenteed.
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Old 04-07-2021, 09:14 PM   #198  
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You all need to go look at South Africa and see how BEE ( Black economic empowerment) has completely destroyed the country. This is just the beginning. I understand and support it if they are giving minorities opportunities, but as others have said , if you are giving preferential to the actual hiring of individuals based on skin color or gender, thatís BS.

I was born a white male in South Africa and had to leave my entire damn family to move to another country to get a job as a pilot. I would never have the opportunity to be a pilot in the country I was born because I am white.

This will trickle down into other industries Guarenteed.
Except, you are upset over CENTURIES of oppression against black people in South Africa and they are finally trying to change it back. The Dutch invaded South Africa in the mid 1650s and enslaved and colonized. I am sorry to hear you are struggling with this, but after about 350 years, I get that they have had enough.
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Old 04-07-2021, 09:27 PM   #199  
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Except, you are upset over CENTURIES of oppression against black people in South Africa and they are finally trying to change it back. The Dutch invaded South Africa in the mid 1650s and enslaved and colonized. I am sorry to hear you are struggling with this, but after about 350 years, I get that they have had enough.
Iím not even going to respond to your ridiculous statement. Iím glad to hear that you think I should be punished for something that started happening 350 years ago. FYI I was 8 years old when the new government took over, so I can assure you I was not part of the oppressive regime.
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Old 04-07-2021, 09:41 PM   #200  
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Originally Posted by TrumpLostLOL View Post
Why are white people so mad United wants to start being more diverse? So pathetic...
Just curious, what is your opinion on a close family friend that is first generation pilot whose parents emigrated from in 1990 Kazakhstan getting preferential treatment for Aviate? Yes or no? Also, I have a nephew living in Spain, but is the son of an American servicemember and is interested. His last name is Rodriguez. People assume he is Mexican sometimes, although he is not Mexican, but Spanish. He has fairly dark skin and is interested in becoming a pilot. Should Aviate assign a preferential spot for either of these guys or should they be in the non-preferential side? What do you see as the decision points?
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