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Originally Posted by KSwift76
(Post 3218633)
I appreciate your thoughtful post. Didn't see the other one you quoted. Typing on a phone so pardon the grammatical, spelling errors etc....
I understand your frustration. I hear you when you say you feel like you are being discriminated against. I just can't figure out how. You, (I assume you are a white male) are still getting 50% of the opportunity. Everyone else has to split 50% of the opportunity. These are not jobs until you pass the aviate interview. I imagine the off the street hiring will still be whatever it is now (I imagine 85% based on nothing more than my informal assumptions based on the people I see in the crew room, training center, and in the right seat). How is 50 % of the new thing, plus 85% 9f the old thing unfair to you assuming everyone has equal qualifications? It doesn't add up to me. I'm always interested in dialogue and would love for it to be explained to me in a way that is logical and makes sense. As I said I'm willing to learn and grow. If you're not growing, you're dieing. I know I've been doing this for a while and I've heard every story you can imagine about "if I were a woman or minority, I would have been at mainline years ago with just 1500 hours.". It took me a hell of a lot more than that. I don't hear nearly the amount about interns or senior check airmen getting their offspring hired well below competitive minimums. Why do you suppose that is? Anyway, I don't suppose we are going to change each other's minds in this thread. We have to listen to each other though and empathize with each other. We are all in this country and on this planet together. We all bleed red, laugh, cry, hurt, etc.... You know what I'm saying. Good luck if you work here, beers on me once I'm fully vaccinated. Until then stay safe and let's all try to do better. |
Originally Posted by ThumbsUp
(Post 3218676)
History has shown in nearly every profession, when forcibly diversifying entry programs in XYZ, standards are lowered to achieve that goal. That’s not emotional, it’s just reality.
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I heard the MLB All Star game will now be in Chicago.
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Originally Posted by hummingbear
(Post 3218680)
Wow. Sounds like you’ve conducted a very robust statistical analysis of this not at all nebulous claim.
The theme of quotas lowering the quality of an applicant pool is legitimate though. The actual way to increase minority representation is to encourage whatever activity/job/etc... from a young age. School out reach programs are massively needed for this and then you actually build a quality pool to pull from. The problem is, such a grass roots effort can take decades to show results. Much easier for politicians, business leaders, and universities to set quotas and just increase the raw numbers, quality of the applicants be damned, and then pat themselves on the back about how tolerant and woke they are. |
Lots of angst here and understandably so. It's frustrating to watch people who can't see the forest for the trees. Shortcuts like this will ultimately lead to a negative effect for the profession and for those whom this is intended to help. The more round pegs they try to cram through square holes will not help out any demographic positively, nor will it benefit the profession. The cream will rise to the top, successful driven people will find an avenue to be successful which may mean less of them in aviation. The more the profession is whittled away to bring it down to the lowest common denominator to meet a quota the less desirable it will become.
When you grant an advantage to one group or groups for positions of limited quantity you're inevitably allowing a disadvantage to be placed on another group. The result will be only the best of the disadvantaged group will exist, further enhancing the perceived perception of superiority a program like this is supposedly trying to eliminate. It's unfortunate to see people sabotage races and a gender they claim to be trying to help. Ultimately though, the smart driven people of any demographic will continue to succeed. Someday perhaps our society will be sophisticated enough to recognize this but based on our current trajectory it doesn't look like that will happen anytime soon. As the father of a targeted demographic of this program it does make me sad for her and our species as a whole. I try to remind myself her level of success will ultimately be a factor of her drive, abilities and intelligence in spite of handicaps our society willingly creates. |
If there was any statement issued at all it should have read:
"United will continue to hire the most highly qualified candidates regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation or creed." Period. Anything else (like the statement they put out) is discriminatory. |
To be clear, I’m not for lowering standards at all. So once again for perspective, it bears reviewing what United has actually committed to doing. Over the next ten years, they plan to find from a population of 330 million, 2,500 women & people from minority demographics, train them to fly to FAA standards, and give them a chance to interview for a position at UAL. If you honestly don’t think that can be done without sacrificing safety, you may need to examine your world view.
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If there was any statement issued at all it should have read:
"United will continue to hire the most highly qualified candidates regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation or creed." Period. Anything else (like the statement they put out) is discriminatory. |
I feel like I have to pipe in as a male of color. I feel like a I had a damn solid resume, solid GPA, Masters in Aero Sci, 121 Internship, Military Heavy Pilot, 121 Regional Capt, but I got passed up (had later interviews) by white females. I didn’t know what to think, not a single one of them had their masters, PIC, or an internship. They were literally hired for being a female. It’s hard for me to lump them all together, because some of my closest friends in aviation are female pilots, and they’re damn good. But this was the quota for two airlines that early on decided to make it 50/50 by taking any female with a pulse. Thankfully I moved on to an airline that actually cared about my skills, but I’ll never forget that right seat revolving door of minorities passing me up to meet quotas.
I just want to see the NBA hire more white males and people who are vertically challenged. |
At what point does this insanity end? When does Mother U say we dont have enough diversity in the left seat and start abrogating seniority in order to get the mix correct? Maybe I should just start identifying as a 777 CAPT and fight the oppression now...smh
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