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Originally Posted by KSwift76
(Post 3218623)
Not at all. Here to tell the other side of the coin. I rarely post, but read a lot. If you search my post history, you will find several posts on other threads basically stating the same things I'm saying here. Giving other people an opportunity is not racist. Advocating for everyone to have a chance is not racist. Not once did I say white males should not have an opportunity or be excluded. In fact, 50% of the applicants will he white males. Also I did not say people should be accepted or hired if they are unqualified. My family rides on the back of our jets. I sure want a good, competent knowledgeable FO to help and give input based on their experience when things go wrong. I just believe that other people can also do this job and perhaps lack of opportunity or exposure or financing or maybe reading this thread makes them not want too. I don't proclaim to know what my colleagues are thinking at work. I know what has been said to me directly and indirectly. I know what I've heard when they know I'm on the room and when they don't know I'm in the room. I do not know everyone's intent. I do know what I hear from a large number of my fellow pilots.
It has to change. Thankfully UAL is taking positive steps to invest in people that have the ability to get qualified to operate our jets. White, Black, Brown, Gay, Straight, etc.... If you're qualified, you get a chance. I just don't want the same people who have traditionally held the keys to the gates with attitudes like several on here making those decisions. Again 50% minorities and women 50% (I assume white males) into the Academy with a chance to get into the pipeline. Hardly excluding anyone. The entire country needs to drop the affirmative action that gives college and jobs out on the basis of not being white. No white gets a handout or hangup. Race sex etc should never be asked in anything. It should be qualifications only. That is THE ONLY non racist way to work. Hiring based on not being a white straight male, Obap, ngpa, and every other box checking philosophy is racist. Not once does any it'll these Airlines support a white straight male pilot association buy handing out jobs, interviews and type rides. Racism is racism regardless of which side you flip the coin to |
Originally Posted by HanYolo
(Post 3218643)
There is something that heavily gets overlooked here. All the angry white males on here that have an issue with all genders and all minority backgrounds getting hired, you’ve just revealed something important about what you are saying.
The fact that you immediately assume the minorities and women to be hired, being less qualified than you without even knowing their qualifications. THAT makes you a racist. There will be plenty talent in the future. Women and minorities now more than ever have the ability to have this wonderful career that us white overprivileged males have enjoyed for so long! |
Originally Posted by XJ86
(Post 3218813)
No white gets a handout or hangup. Race sex etc should never be asked in anything. It should be qualifications only.
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Originally Posted by Two bounces
(Post 3218646)
I would be happy to see every race and gender pursue a dream of becoming a pilot. If this program is focused on getting more people interested in aviation, great. I’m a white male at a regional. When it comes time for that main line interview, I’m just going to check a few extra boxes on the race/sex questionnaire.
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Originally Posted by Chuck D
(Post 3218816)
literally that is the almost exact definition of legacy selection at some colleges and companies
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It’s pretty interesting seeing both sides of the argument to this situation.
On the one, you have the defense of racism and sexism for the benefit of diversity. Personally, I’m truly unsure how the “equity” crowd does not see racism when it is used against white people. I am all for equality, not so much equity. I don’t care about your diverse skin color or genetic background, I care for you as a person and your quality at your job. Forcing quotas inherently means you’re denying someone that is equally if not more qualified away over someone else. America used to be the country where anyone can achieve anything if you work for it. For white men like myself who come from low-middle income parents, that is becoming less and less the case. It is very disparaging to continually see headlines and companies tell me that if I was black or some minority, I’d be a more desirable applicant. Disparaging that because I’m white it means I’m somehow privileged enough that I don’t need help. I mean, you have OBAP, the 99’s, WIA. GPA....can anyone point me to the straight white male association? Would airlines even put that group on their app? Does anyone realize that when I look for a group to join, there’s nothing out there? Up until about 2 years ago, none of this bothered me. My parents taught me that my success is up to me. But now with COVID displacing me from work, and airlines like United and Alaska pledging affirmative action goals, it’s discouraging. What’s even further disparaging is knowing there are people who would read this and shrug off the idea that a white guy is complaining, because apparently white people don’t have a right to. Too privileged For all the folks at United, I believe there’s a moral obligation to stand up for racism and sexism. The reason all this stuff is happening to multiple companies is that no one speaks up (I would guess because of indifference or fear of not looking like a good person). This is racist nonsense and you can’t just sit by idly. |
Originally Posted by Furloughedboi
(Post 3218828)
It’s pretty interesting seeing both sides of the argument to this situation.
On the one, you have the defense of racism and sexism for the benefit of diversity. Personally, I’m truly unsure how the “equity” crowd does not see racism when it is used against white people. I am all for equality, not so much equity. I don’t care about your diverse skin color or genetic background, I care for you as a person and your quality at your job. Forcing quotas inherently means you’re denying someone that is equally if not more qualified away over someone else. America used to be the country where anyone can achieve anything if you work for it. For white men like myself who come from low-middle income parents, that is becoming less and less the case. It is very disparaging to continually see headlines and companies tell me that if I was black or some minority, I’d be a more desirable applicant. Disparaging that because I’m white it means I’m somehow privileged enough that I don’t need help. I mean, you have OBAP, the 99’s, WIA. GPA....can anyone point me to the straight white male association? Would airlines even put that group on their app? Does anyone realize that when I look for a group to join, there’s nothing out there? Up until about 2 years ago, none of this bothered me. My parents taught me that my success is up to me. But now with COVID displacing me from work, and airlines like United and Alaska pledging affirmative action goals, it’s discouraging. What’s even further disparaging is knowing there are people who would read this and shrug off the idea that a white guy is complaining, because apparently white people don’t have a right to. Too privileged For all the folks at United, I believe there’s a moral obligation to stand up for racism and sexism. The reason all this stuff is happening to multiple companies is that no one speaks up (I would guess because of indifference or fear of not looking like a good person). This is racist nonsense and you can’t just sit by idly. |
Originally Posted by Desdi
(Post 3218820)
Nope legacy means legacy whether at Howard University or UNC, don’t make something about race when it literally is about something else.... in this case nepotism (which I don’t agree with either)!
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United announces they will actively recruit women and minorities into their Aviate zero to hero program in hope of diversifying aviation.
San Francisco: Yay! Los Angeles: Yay! Denver: Yay! Chicago: Yay! New York: Yay! Washington DC: Yay! Houston: F$&@ that s$&@, that’s reverse racism! MURICA! Freedom! Bald eagles , confederate flags, Jesus, white people and s$&@! Yeehaw! Who could have possibly see that coming. |
Originally Posted by KSwift76
(Post 3218556)
Your feelings about who you think United may hire in AVIATE are also IRRELEVANT. What's the difference In those occupations vs. airline pilot regarding pay, prestige etc.... I don't expect you to agree as I've had this conversation countless times at work (never initiated by me unless someone asks my opinion) and I know generally how a large number of airline pilots feel about me sitting next to them and or their perception of my qualifications. I've heard it when people didn't know I was in the room, I've heard it when I was in the room. If one of your colleagues (me) is trying to enlighten you a little bit about life as a minority in this country and this business, it takes very little effort to just listen and consider some of what I am saying. I certainly do the same for you and the 95% of other pilots I listen to spouting off contentious sound bites about their perception of race, mainstream media, radical left, etc.... Thanks for the candor all good night.
I used to also think pilots should be in charge of hiring pilots. As I've grown and learned (cuz let's face it, if you're not growing, you're dying) I'm glad HR types are doing the hiring (Hogan test excluded). If it were up to a guys with attitudes like yours, I would never be sitting where I am. Good luck, lets all try to do better and have a little empathy. Peace |
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