Originally Posted by hummingbear

First off, if you’re really just looking for a respectful discussion that yields refreshing perspectives, may I suggest dropping the “China Flu” nonsense. It’s a term that’s promoted specifically to make the discussion heated & emotional rather than data-based & rational.

Like I said, vaccinating the recovered is not my biggest concern by a long shot. I suspect- and research is continuing to suggest- that it may be moot in many circumstances. (Then again, only 1 in 10 Americans have had a confirmed case of COVID-19, so the issue isn’t as applicable as some are making it seem.) I’m only saying that if you think people should be making free, informed decisions- as it seems we both do- you need to be honest about the unknowns on both sides of the equation. Stating all the unknowns about duration of immunity, long-term complications, etc., of the vaccine without consenting the same of the virus itself is intellectually disingenuous.

Now the knowns. Nearly a billion people worldwide (including many with asthma, apnea, etc.) have received at least one dose with a death rate of essentially zero vs nearly 4 million dead from the virus- not to mention hospitalizations, lung-scarring, and other complications for many more. I don’t think most of us here need to live in fear of either, but I really question the logic of someone who is more afraid of the one that’s been proven safe in multiple clinical trials than the one that has killed 600K Americans alone and continues to spread rapidly & mutate in certain regions of the world.

It’s like refusing to wear a seatbelt because you think there are cancer causing agents in the material it’s made of. The car accident- even if statistically rare- is far more likely to kill you.

Originally Posted by JamesBond

Fair enough on the ChinaFlu thing. Other than that we are mostly in agreement I think. But... do you have any link to 'clinical trials' regarding CV vaccines? In particular to animal testing that has traditionally been done PRIOR to human testing. My understanding is that they are being done concurrently with human testing.

And as I asked someone else. Do you believe swollen arms, bruising or getting violently sick within hours of receiving these vaccines are 'normal' and acceptable side effects?

Originally Posted by JamesBond

do you have any link to 'clinical trials' regarding CV vaccines? In particular to animal testing that has traditionally been done PRIOR to human testing. My understanding is that they are being done concurrently with human testing.

Originally Posted by JamesBond

And as I asked someone else. Do you believe swollen arms, bruising or getting violently sick within hours of receiving these vaccines are 'normal' and acceptable side effects?

Originally Posted by hummingbear

First off, if you’re really just looking for a respectful discussion that yields refreshing perspectives, may I suggest dropping the “China Flu” nonsense. It’s a term that’s promoted specifically to make the discussion heated & emotional rather than data-based & rational.

Originally Posted by bigfatdaddy

Wuhan is in China last time I checked

Originally Posted by hummingbear

Case in point, here is someone who is not looking for a thoughtful, productive conversation on the virus or the vaccine.

Originally Posted by hummingbear

These vaccines only received emergency FDA authorization after demonstrating safety & efficacy through 3 months of clinical trials. Full authorization requires 6 months of clinical trials which has also been completed & in the case of Pfizer, submitted for review & approval.


Acceptable is a relative term. I do think dying of COVID, or loss of one’s senses or lung function are more concerning than a swollen arm. As has been stated many times before, vulnerability to the virus & vaccination each carry risks. The risks of vaccination are less common & less severe than the risks of the virus, though.

Originally Posted by Bestglide

why? because you disagree that it's from China? or Wuhan?

Originally Posted by JamesBond

How do you know that the 'swollen arm' is not symptomatic of something more serious that these vaccines could cause later on?

Originally Posted by JamesBond

You are buying into the fear porn spouted by CNN. It is well over 99% survivable. I am living proof. My 86 year old mother in law is proof. My wife id proof as well as many other members of my family.

How do you know that the 'swollen arm' is not symptomatic of something more serious that these vaccines could cause later on? You don't.

And 6 months??? for a vaccine method that has NEVER been used nor successful in animals much less humans and you are willing to roll up sleeves for that? Amazing.

Originally Posted by Bestglide

why? because you disagree that it's from China? or Wuhan?