I agree. We cannot paint ourselves in a box and feel pressured to accept this. There is more pressure on the company to get this done than the pilots. Make them earn it.

 

That's the million dollar question. It could be turned around with blazing speed...or we night not see another TA for years.

I think we can make some pretty good assumptions though... Notwithstanding the LCA & PI bottleneck the company doesn’t really think they have a problem. We keep chugging along and the flights keep going close to scheduled. They are already throwing a lot of $$$ at us...but only the fortunate among us that get lots of Premium Pay. They don't feel the need to spread the wealth among us all. Also, the expedited review period prior to the MR vote appears designed to force a vote prior to 2Q results. That alone would cause me to vote NO.

One final thought. The company wants this signed soonest - before the financial benefits of the recovery kick in to full gear. By signing early we acknowledge that we can't capture all of the upside, but it may be worth the risk to sign a deal given the tenuous economic forecasts. There a several ways we can hedge the financial risk of signing early. Two of those have been in recent contractual LOAs - a 'me too' clause & a pay increase triggered by measurable profitability. Neither of these are in the TA which tells me the company doesn't want to share in the success we helped build. Instead we have a short term contract - amendable in 18 months. This indeed gives us the opportunity to negotiate wage increases, BUT the company will have no incentive to reach an agreement. So on we go...another multi year delay beyond thr amendable date. We JUST WENT THROUGH THAT. Did we get a deal in 2019 pre-COVID when we were at record profit levels....or did we go past the amendable date?

This TA doesn't come close to capturing our share of the financial success of United. Financial success that wouldn't have been possible without our coperation.

 

I'll cut you some slack since you didn't have a chance to read through the contract before posting one month. NO. The contract is concessionary as far as work rules and needs a significant rewrite. Unless the MEC is going to run polling on what the rank and file wants to see in TA2 while this is out for ratification, it's going to take time to just know what the rank and file is ****ed off about.

This is going back to the MEC and I expect this summer to be a long painful schedule meltdown because people aren't going to be picking up open time.

But we could vote this in for a new Tumi suitcase.

 

Agree. After reading through all they documents, etc. this turd needs to be flushed with a complete re-write. I still think the company WANTS a new contract more than we do so they are motivated to get it done. Unfortunately, the MEC doesn’t even know what we want and will have a lot of legwork to do if this is (hopefully) voted down.

We have so much to lose and very little to gain if we vote this in…well except for the Tumi suitcase.

 

The MEC has a pretty good idea what we want; I don't think they are out of touch with the rank and file.
My personal opinion is that the company's negotiating committee steamrolled ALPA negotiating committee (NC) and the MEC and NC decided 'no mas.' The MEC then decided to send this to the rank and file to reject it just to drive the point home to the company's negotiating committee. Had the MEC rejected it without sending it out, the company negotiating committee would not get as clear a message.
That's my take.
But - Tumi suitcase.

 

I see some wisdom in your comment…. That is entirely possible!!! Buuuutttt for an “entire” rewrite, will take a significant amount of time, and that’s if there are no recalls after this!?!?

 

Time is on our side.

If we vote No:
- we keep 10am 1st day, wide body landings, etc etc
- we will still get the LOA 5% raise
- we don’t give up anything
- Kirby doesn’t get what he desperately wants and is motivated to quickly come back to the table

If we vote Yes:
- we give up way too much all for what? A paltry 4%???
- Kirby gets what he wants and we’re stuck with a worse contract for much longer than 2 years because he will have nothing else he needs from us
- we’re the laughing stock of the industry

 

Wow, what a difference a few days make. Go back and read the expectations at the beginning of this thread before the TA was out. Crazy how bad it actually is.

 

What are the chances that we actually get this? We have had 0 quarters so far that met the criteria. Q2 may actually be profitable, but what happens once this summer revenge travel stops and the economy slows down from its rapid bounce post-COVID? (Not to mention if a recession actually occurs)

I’m definitely not planning on getting the LOA 5% pay raise if this TA fails. I believe we will be stuck with the current contract for a while.

 

If it was the intent to pass this to membership to “send a message” then that should be immediately communicated; otherwise, they’re risking the confidence and value of the union for some unspoken agenda. Nothing is worth risking that and I have to believe that’s not the case here.

The roadshows will be interesting. We’re at a point in time where labor actually has some leverage and most of us will likely never see it again for the rest of our flying careers. I suppose that’s why I’m most surprised at the shortcomings. Some further explanation from official channels is certainly desired.