United vs Delta
11-22-2022, 02:49 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,427
Originally Posted by Zoomie
On the other hand, DL has a much more "balanced" network with a much more East Coast Heavy Airline. They owned United on European flying pre-pandemic. That has changed post pandemic.
I agree with Delta being more of a East coast airline and United being a west coast heavy airline.
Delta domestic network is more balance, however SK is trying to right that ship with United Next (need a contract to support it though)…
11-22-2022, 07:45 AM
#52
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 403
Originally Posted by Swakid8
‘Meh, I wouldn’t go as far as saying DL owned United in terms of European flying. The two have always been neck to neck with Delta having a slight edge European flying.
I agree with Delta being more of a East coast airline and United being a west coast heavy airline.
Delta domestic network is more balance, however SK is trying to right that ship with United Next (need a contract to support it though)…
I agree with Delta being more of a East coast airline and United being a west coast heavy airline.
Delta domestic network is more balance, however SK is trying to right that ship with United Next (need a contract to support it though)…
However, I've been here 15 years and DL has always had more Europe feed than us. Not by like 20% or anything, but they have always had a slight edge. United got an edge in Europe coming out of the pandemic and I expect that lead to widen unless DL re-invests in some more WB aircraft.
DL is France heavy due to their alliance with AF.
AA is UK heavy with BA alliance.
UA is Germany heavy with Lufthansa alliance.
11-22-2022, 08:29 AM
#53
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Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 432
Originally Posted by Zoomie
Perhaps "owned" is not the proper term...
However, I've been here 15 years and DL has always had more Europe feed than us. Not by like 20% or anything, but they have always had a slight edge. United got an edge in Europe coming out of the pandemic and I expect that lead to widen unless DL re-invests in some more WB aircraft.
DL is France heavy due to their alliance with AF.
AA is UK heavy with BA alliance.
UA is Germany heavy with Lufthansa alliance.
However, I've been here 15 years and DL has always had more Europe feed than us. Not by like 20% or anything, but they have always had a slight edge. United got an edge in Europe coming out of the pandemic and I expect that lead to widen unless DL re-invests in some more WB aircraft.
DL is France heavy due to their alliance with AF.
AA is UK heavy with BA alliance.
UA is Germany heavy with Lufthansa alliance.
11-22-2022, 07:20 PM
#54
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Joined APC: Apr 2016
Position: Looking left
Posts: 3,251
Originally Posted by Zoomie
While DL is hiring significantly too, DL has probably hired 5000 pilots in the 5-6 years pre-pandemic. UAL hired probably 2500 5-6 years pre-pandemic. DL grew to a 15000 pilot airline pre-pandemic.
UAL is at roughly 12500 active pilots right now looking to grow to over 15000, so that's 2500 pilots that if hired now could easily be junior to you on top of those hired to replace retirees.
UAL is at roughly 12500 active pilots right now looking to grow to over 15000, so that's 2500 pilots that if hired now could easily be junior to you on top of those hired to replace retirees.
Pre-pandemic high was 14.7 total. Active pilots floated around in the low 13K range.
Just this month we finally got back to 14.7 total pilots, with 13.5 active.
11-23-2022, 03:44 AM
#55
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 91
Originally Posted by Nimbus2000
Thank you everyone for your input. The metrics I’m using to decide partially include opinions from this forum.
For those of you who’s took the time to answer with helpful information about either UA or DL depending on where you work, thank you very much for your input. It’s nice to have some inside info.
For those of you who’s took the time to answer with helpful information about either UA or DL depending on where you work, thank you very much for your input. It’s nice to have some inside info.
For some data/context on Delta I highly suggest going to WidgetSeniority.com and signing up for a free “prospective hire” account. Then look at the “Career Progression” section. This will show up where you will stand on the seniority list at retirement if the current airline size stays static.
For example: I will retire at 13.6%-ish at Delta which means I would not be senior enough to hold A330 or A350 Captain with the current fleet mix. I’m fine foregoing Widebody Captain - are you?
I do not know where to find similar data for United.
11-23-2022, 04:34 AM
#56
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Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,016
Originally Posted by cskafan123
Pretty good information here. Sadly many don't think having a great LTD isn't as important as scope or pay in the contract negotiations. Imo, for a professionals pilot LTD must be #1 prority, then retirement then everything else.
Btw, as ALPA members you guys should be getting a supplemental insurance from the Union, right? Is that a fix amount?
Btw, as ALPA members you guys should be getting a supplemental insurance from the Union, right? Is that a fix amount?
Easy there. Yes, Ltd is very important, but those of us who’ve been in this industry for more than a minute understand that Scope is section 1 for a reason. If there’s no job, there’s nothing left to protect.
11-23-2022, 06:22 AM
#57
On Reserve
Joined APC: Dec 2021
Posts: 18
At the end of their first year 737 FO’s end up about the same seniority as me 30ish percent. This is due to most new hires constantly bidding out.
They can also sit reserve and be Captain.
If I compare my December Christmas schedule to those who are the same seniority in Houston or Denver. I would say your work quality of life schedule is WAY better in LAX.
They can also sit reserve and be Captain.
If I compare my December Christmas schedule to those who are the same seniority in Houston or Denver. I would say your work quality of life schedule is WAY better in LAX.
11-23-2022, 12:04 PM
#58
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Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 612
Originally Posted by Swakid8
‘Meh, I wouldn’t go as far as saying DL owned United in terms of European flying. The two have always been neck to neck with Delta having a slight edge European flying.
I agree with Delta being more of a East coast airline and United being a west coast heavy airline.
Delta domestic network is more balance, however SK is trying to right that ship with United Next (need a contract to support it though)…
I agree with Delta being more of a East coast airline and United being a west coast heavy airline.
Delta domestic network is more balance, however SK is trying to right that ship with United Next (need a contract to support it though)…
11-25-2022, 02:22 AM
#60
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Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,091
Originally Posted by PointBreak
Including UPS or Fed Ex?
At FedEx we fly to only a handful of destinations across the Atlantic from the US. STN, CDG, LGG, CGN, MXP, DXB and maybe a few others. Most of our cargo "connects" in CDG before/after its Atlantic crossing.
We may have the most wide body aircraft of any US airline, but we aren't as big as most people think we are. We're just barely going to hit 6,000 on the seniority list for the first time ever by the end of the year. We didn't even break 5000 until 2020.
So in 2021 I have no doubt that United operated more flights across the pond than we did. And UPS is even smaller.
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