DEI=Racism thread moved or pulled?
02-22-2023 | 11:40 AM
#131
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 542
Likes: 0
From: Pilot
CommutAir 4933, Atlas 3591, UPS 1354.
Ever wonder why some pilots are allowed to fly after multiple training issues? Or, why some pilots are hired even after they’ve failed multiple check rides?
Why pilots with perfect records were bypassed for hiring and those with significant deficits were hired in a safety sensitive profession?
The above are just three examples, but I think it is reasonable to question what has driven the hiring of airline pilots in the past.
Subjectively, a pilots training record is the number 1 correlation to determine the success of that pilot in the future. It’s a more significant correlate than criminality and DUI.
Ever wonder why some pilots are allowed to fly after multiple training issues? Or, why some pilots are hired even after they’ve failed multiple check rides?
Why pilots with perfect records were bypassed for hiring and those with significant deficits were hired in a safety sensitive profession?
The above are just three examples, but I think it is reasonable to question what has driven the hiring of airline pilots in the past.
Subjectively, a pilots training record is the number 1 correlation to determine the success of that pilot in the future. It’s a more significant correlate than criminality and DUI.
02-22-2023 | 11:47 AM
#132
Slam-Clicka
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,570
Likes: 85
As for the DEI discussion…..I had a lot more heartburn over the issue when it was HARD to get an interview, and “diversity hires” were getting hired fro, the right seat. Now that it doesn’t hinder me in any way, I have no issue with DEI adjusting the standards for HIRING. Adjusting the standards for TRAINING and EVALUATION is completely unacceptable. As long as that doesn’t occur….there’s no reason to think a low time hire can’t hone the skills and procedures in the training environment. We need diversity…but we also need unity AMONGST that diversity. Having cliques of different demographics doesn’t help the cause. Not at the airline….not in this country.
02-22-2023 | 11:51 AM
#133
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 3,634
Likes: 209
Yes.
As for the DEI discussion…..I had a lot more heartburn over the issue when it was HARD to get an interview, and “diversity hires” were getting hired fro, the right seat. Now that it doesn’t hinder me in any way, I have no issue with DEI adjusting the standards for HIRING. Adjusting the standards for TRAINING and EVALUATION is completely unacceptable. As long as that doesn’t occur….there’s no reason to think a low time hire can’t hone the skills and procedures in the training environment. We need diversity…but we also need unity AMONGST that diversity. Having cliques of different demographics doesn’t help the cause. Not at the airline….not in this country.
As for the DEI discussion…..I had a lot more heartburn over the issue when it was HARD to get an interview, and “diversity hires” were getting hired fro, the right seat. Now that it doesn’t hinder me in any way, I have no issue with DEI adjusting the standards for HIRING. Adjusting the standards for TRAINING and EVALUATION is completely unacceptable. As long as that doesn’t occur….there’s no reason to think a low time hire can’t hone the skills and procedures in the training environment. We need diversity…but we also need unity AMONGST that diversity. Having cliques of different demographics doesn’t help the cause. Not at the airline….not in this country.
02-22-2023 | 11:55 AM
#134
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 3,634
Likes: 209
I’ve flown with numerous retired military pilots with unbelievably weak piloting skills and decision-making. Should we stop veteran’s preference for job applications too since that elevates a lot of “unqualified” people to a newhire class?
gmafb.. this thread is just a disgrace and nothing more than the Tucker & Pals addicted forever victims throwing one fit after another.
APC used to be useful, but this is nothing more than a safe haven for the most ignorant among us.
mods, feel free to delete my account. There’s nothing of use in this echo chamber of crybabies. Such an embarrassment to the profession.
gmafb.. this thread is just a disgrace and nothing more than the Tucker & Pals addicted forever victims throwing one fit after another.
APC used to be useful, but this is nothing more than a safe haven for the most ignorant among us.
mods, feel free to delete my account. There’s nothing of use in this echo chamber of crybabies. Such an embarrassment to the profession.
02-22-2023 | 12:04 PM
#136
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,923
Likes: 95
CommutAir 4933, Atlas 3591, UPS 1354.
Ever wonder why some pilots are allowed to fly after multiple training issues? Or, why some pilots are hired even after they’ve failed multiple check rides?
Why pilots with perfect records were bypassed for hiring and those with significant deficits were hired in a safety sensitive profession?
The above are just three examples, but I think it is reasonable to question what has driven the hiring of airline pilots in the past.
Subjectively, a pilots training record is the number 1 correlation to determine the success of that pilot in the future. It’s a more significant correlate than criminality and DUI.
Ever wonder why some pilots are allowed to fly after multiple training issues? Or, why some pilots are hired even after they’ve failed multiple check rides?
Why pilots with perfect records were bypassed for hiring and those with significant deficits were hired in a safety sensitive profession?
The above are just three examples, but I think it is reasonable to question what has driven the hiring of airline pilots in the past.
Subjectively, a pilots training record is the number 1 correlation to determine the success of that pilot in the future. It’s a more significant correlate than criminality and DUI.
Northwest Airlines Flight 255
Delta Air Lines Flight 1141
PSA Flight 2495
AA Flight 1420
It’s obvious pilots pilots of non minority/male status have also have their share crashes and mishaps with perfect records right…..
Atlas 3591 was a breakdown in the PRIA system and a carrier at the time desperate for bodies in the flight deck at the time and no body in the training department speaking up washing the guy out…..
But if you want to point crashes that involves folks of non-minority/ or male status. The numbers will not support your stance…..
Mods, this thread needs to die….
Last edited by Swakid8; 02-22-2023 at 12:20 PM.
02-22-2023 | 12:07 PM
#137
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
It is not bad. It’s good.
Having different standards is bad. Removing standards for political and ideological motivations is bad. Ignoring HR, personal and safety issues in hiring of pilots and air traffic controllers is bad.
This has been going on for decades. The flavor and color of the preferred candidates changes, but the bias, nepotism, blatant bigotry and favoritism does not. It’s packaged as “Good Leads the Way”, but it is the exact opposite.
You say 93% of pilots are white males. In NTSB reportable accidents and incidents, what percentage of pilots involved are white males? Take a guess? It’s much less than 93%, because standards were reduced to fulfill ideological goals. Employees and customers are expendable because of political ideology.
The desire for “diversity” exceeds the supply of adequate candidates. So, standards are reduced until the diversity goals are achieved. This probably leads to more preventable incidents and accidents, HR problems, etc., but airlines have made the decision that this is the cost of doing business, this is OK.
DEI has some negative consequences. These issues should be addressed before there is needless injury and death.
Having different standards is bad. Removing standards for political and ideological motivations is bad. Ignoring HR, personal and safety issues in hiring of pilots and air traffic controllers is bad.
This has been going on for decades. The flavor and color of the preferred candidates changes, but the bias, nepotism, blatant bigotry and favoritism does not. It’s packaged as “Good Leads the Way”, but it is the exact opposite.
You say 93% of pilots are white males. In NTSB reportable accidents and incidents, what percentage of pilots involved are white males? Take a guess? It’s much less than 93%, because standards were reduced to fulfill ideological goals. Employees and customers are expendable because of political ideology.
The desire for “diversity” exceeds the supply of adequate candidates. So, standards are reduced until the diversity goals are achieved. This probably leads to more preventable incidents and accidents, HR problems, etc., but airlines have made the decision that this is the cost of doing business, this is OK.
DEI has some negative consequences. These issues should be addressed before there is needless injury and death.
I agree nepotism at United is bad though. If you have family in the company, you are granted a seat in, when off the street people have to go through the hoops. its totally unfair.
02-22-2023 | 12:09 PM
#138
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
CommutAir 4933, Atlas 3591, UPS 1354.
Ever wonder why some pilots are allowed to fly after multiple training issues? Or, why some pilots are hired even after they’ve failed multiple check rides?
Why pilots with perfect records were bypassed for hiring and those with significant deficits were hired in a safety sensitive profession?
The above are just three examples, but I think it is reasonable to question what has driven the hiring of airline pilots in the past.
Subjectively, a pilots training record is the number 1 correlation to determine the success of that pilot in the future. It’s a more significant correlate than criminality and DUI.
Ever wonder why some pilots are allowed to fly after multiple training issues? Or, why some pilots are hired even after they’ve failed multiple check rides?
Why pilots with perfect records were bypassed for hiring and those with significant deficits were hired in a safety sensitive profession?
The above are just three examples, but I think it is reasonable to question what has driven the hiring of airline pilots in the past.
Subjectively, a pilots training record is the number 1 correlation to determine the success of that pilot in the future. It’s a more significant correlate than criminality and DUI.
Anyway, in the atlas crash, why was the captain who was white and had no training issues, sitting 2 feet away from the PF, allowed it to happen?
02-22-2023 | 12:31 PM
#139
Slam-Clicka
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,570
Likes: 85
The Captain in the Atlas crash DID try to stop it. I’m pretty sure the control column was damaged from his efforts, if memory serves.
This thread is not only damaging to the POSITIVE ideals behind DEI….but it’s also a major career mistake to think your username isn’t known. I was about to BLAST a former colleague of mine who currently works here…..then I was like….nah. I actually like my job.
This thread is not only damaging to the POSITIVE ideals behind DEI….but it’s also a major career mistake to think your username isn’t known. I was about to BLAST a former colleague of mine who currently works here…..then I was like….nah. I actually like my job.
02-22-2023 | 12:39 PM
#140
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
CommutAir 4933, Atlas 3591, UPS 1354.
Ever wonder why some pilots are allowed to fly after multiple training issues? Or, why some pilots are hired even after they’ve failed multiple check rides?
Why pilots with perfect records were bypassed for hiring and those with significant deficits were hired in a safety sensitive profession?
The above are just three examples, but I think it is reasonable to question what has driven the hiring of airline pilots in the past.
Subjectively, a pilots training record is the number 1 correlation to determine the success of that pilot in the future. It’s a more significant correlate than criminality and DUI.
Ever wonder why some pilots are allowed to fly after multiple training issues? Or, why some pilots are hired even after they’ve failed multiple check rides?
Why pilots with perfect records were bypassed for hiring and those with significant deficits were hired in a safety sensitive profession?
The above are just three examples, but I think it is reasonable to question what has driven the hiring of airline pilots in the past.
Subjectively, a pilots training record is the number 1 correlation to determine the success of that pilot in the future. It’s a more significant correlate than criminality and DUI.
No race or gender has a monopoly on flight safety. No race or gender is inherently unsafe. We’ve all had our share of bad apples.
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