Age 67
08-03-2023 | 01:24 PM
#531
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 3,637
Likes: 212
Raising the mandatory retirement age for airlines does not force a choice, and there are more than two options.
Nothing forces you, or anyone else to work longer. Retiring doesn't "give up seniority." There is zero expectation of retaining seniority when you leave an airline: retirement is the end of seniority, regardless of whether you take an early retirement, get an extension from Congress, or the status quo remains. Seniority has no validity after retirement, so when you leave, whenever you leave, you're giving nothing up.
Your pay increases work on longevity, not seniority. You lose no pay.
The ONLY benefits of seniority are bidding choices, whether for seats, equipments, bases, or lines. None of that is relevant after you leave the company, so "giving it up" means nothing. You retire when you retire, at whatever seniority you hold, and that's it. It's gone. If you've stuck around to 65, unless you're a recent hire, then you have in most cases the seniority to get what you want; a few more or less in number makes little difference, and if you were planning to work until 65 and leave, then do it. There's no gun to your head.
As for choices, you can do whatever you want. Leave early. Leave between 65 and 67. Leave at 65. Stay beyond 67 as an instructor. Move to management. Have a taro sandwich. Write letters to your dead pet. Whatever floats your fancy. You're forced to do none of those things.
Nothing forces you, or anyone else to work longer. Retiring doesn't "give up seniority." There is zero expectation of retaining seniority when you leave an airline: retirement is the end of seniority, regardless of whether you take an early retirement, get an extension from Congress, or the status quo remains. Seniority has no validity after retirement, so when you leave, whenever you leave, you're giving nothing up.
Your pay increases work on longevity, not seniority. You lose no pay.
The ONLY benefits of seniority are bidding choices, whether for seats, equipments, bases, or lines. None of that is relevant after you leave the company, so "giving it up" means nothing. You retire when you retire, at whatever seniority you hold, and that's it. It's gone. If you've stuck around to 65, unless you're a recent hire, then you have in most cases the seniority to get what you want; a few more or less in number makes little difference, and if you were planning to work until 65 and leave, then do it. There's no gun to your head.
As for choices, you can do whatever you want. Leave early. Leave between 65 and 67. Leave at 65. Stay beyond 67 as an instructor. Move to management. Have a taro sandwich. Write letters to your dead pet. Whatever floats your fancy. You're forced to do none of those things.
08-03-2023 | 02:29 PM
#532
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
A large percentage of ‘older’ pilots that transition to a different aircraft or upgrade, have difficulty in doing so.
The cognitive impairments of an older person is definitely noticeable to all sim instructors.
( ask your buddies in the training center )
Age 65 is a great time to hang up this career.
08-03-2023 | 02:40 PM
#533
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 650
Likes: 5
From: 787 Capt.
Couldn’t agree more!
A large percentage of ‘older’ pilots that transition to a different aircraft or upgrade, have difficulty in doing so.
The cognitive impairments of an older person is definitely noticeable to all sim instructors.
( ask your buddies in the training center )
Age 65 is a great time to hang up this career.
A large percentage of ‘older’ pilots that transition to a different aircraft or upgrade, have difficulty in doing so.
The cognitive impairments of an older person is definitely noticeable to all sim instructors.
( ask your buddies in the training center )
Age 65 is a great time to hang up this career.
08-03-2023 | 02:47 PM
#534
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2023
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: 737 CA
Couldn’t agree more!
A large percentage of ‘older’ pilots that transition to a different aircraft or upgrade, have difficulty in doing so.
The cognitive impairments of an older person is definitely noticeable to all sim instructors.
( ask your buddies in the training center )
Age 65 is a great time to hang up this career.
A large percentage of ‘older’ pilots that transition to a different aircraft or upgrade, have difficulty in doing so.
The cognitive impairments of an older person is definitely noticeable to all sim instructors.
( ask your buddies in the training center )
Age 65 is a great time to hang up this career.
Good to know. I won’t transition or upgrade to a different aircraft.
Whew! Thanks for being there for me!
08-04-2023 | 03:53 AM
#537
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,450
Likes: 10
Just to illustrate how disingenuous the whole “no one is making you stay” argument is, consider two pilots. Pilot A is a senior WBCA about to retire. Pilot B is a 60YO NBCA about to upgrade to WBCA. Tonight age 67 passes.
Because pilot A was not previously anticipating any further earnings, he loses nothing. If he opts to voluntarily retire at 65, he still meets 100% of his career expectation. For him, every day he stays past 65 is just money above & beyond what he had planned for.
Pilot B however had a career expectation of 5 years WBCA pay. Because of 67, his upgrade timeline is now delayed by 2 years. If he opts to voluntarily retire at 65, he will now only make 3 years of WBCA pay, losing 2 years times the difference between WB/NB compensation.
Because of this, if Pilot B opts to stay past 65, the first six months or so is just him trying to regain those lost wages. If he stays all the way to 67, he works 2 years longer than he was planning, but only makes around 18 months additional income compared against his previous (age 65) expectations.
The worst case scenario for Pilot A is completely benign where the best case scenario is very positive. For Pilot B, the worst case scenario is significant lost wages, while the best case scenario is the opportunity to work another 2 years & net less than 2 years additional earnings.
The reality is, far more of us are in Pilot B’s position than in Pilot A’s. So I find it amusing when the latter group explains to the former how age 67 is a no-loss situation- as that is only true of their very specific situation.
Because pilot A was not previously anticipating any further earnings, he loses nothing. If he opts to voluntarily retire at 65, he still meets 100% of his career expectation. For him, every day he stays past 65 is just money above & beyond what he had planned for.
Pilot B however had a career expectation of 5 years WBCA pay. Because of 67, his upgrade timeline is now delayed by 2 years. If he opts to voluntarily retire at 65, he will now only make 3 years of WBCA pay, losing 2 years times the difference between WB/NB compensation.
Because of this, if Pilot B opts to stay past 65, the first six months or so is just him trying to regain those lost wages. If he stays all the way to 67, he works 2 years longer than he was planning, but only makes around 18 months additional income compared against his previous (age 65) expectations.
The worst case scenario for Pilot A is completely benign where the best case scenario is very positive. For Pilot B, the worst case scenario is significant lost wages, while the best case scenario is the opportunity to work another 2 years & net less than 2 years additional earnings.
The reality is, far more of us are in Pilot B’s position than in Pilot A’s. So I find it amusing when the latter group explains to the former how age 67 is a no-loss situation- as that is only true of their very specific situation.
08-04-2023 | 04:38 AM
#538
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,738
Likes: 5
From: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Couldn’t agree more!
A large percentage of ‘older’ pilots that transition to a different aircraft or upgrade, have difficulty in doing so.
The cognitive impairments of an older person is definitely noticeable to all sim instructors.
( ask your buddies in the training center )
Age 65 is a great time to hang up this career.
A large percentage of ‘older’ pilots that transition to a different aircraft or upgrade, have difficulty in doing so.
The cognitive impairments of an older person is definitely noticeable to all sim instructors.
( ask your buddies in the training center )
Age 65 is a great time to hang up this career.
08-04-2023 | 04:50 AM
#539
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,662
Likes: 128
Age 67 would be much harder to sell if it was a stand alone proposal, however it was simply inserted into a larger bill. To most politicians the issue is nothing but additional pork that they’ll ignore while focusing on the parts of the bill that serve their interest. It’s likely going to pass and we can’t do much about that.
So how does the union respond? If other regulatory authorities don’t immediately match us, do we pass a LOA that allows the company to drop trips without pay for pilots who are no longer legal to fly the trip? Considering that all fleets fly international to some degree, the impact on staffing could be a real mess.
So how does the union respond? If other regulatory authorities don’t immediately match us, do we pass a LOA that allows the company to drop trips without pay for pilots who are no longer legal to fly the trip? Considering that all fleets fly international to some degree, the impact on staffing could be a real mess.
08-04-2023 | 05:13 AM
#540
Banned
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 657
Likes: 0
From: B-737 Captain
July 25, 2022 U.S. Senators Lindsey Graham (R-South Carolina), John Thune (R-South Dakota), Deb Fischer (R-Nebraska), Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), Cynthia Lummis (R-Wyoming), and Marsha Blackburn (R-Tennessee) will today introduce the Let Experienced Pilots Fly Act to address airline flights cancellations caused by a shortage of pilots.
Well, well. It's been a long year and 1000's of age 65 retirements since Lindsay and his merry band of republicans introduced the Let Experienced Pilots Fly Act. Good thing the democrats control the Senate. Your ALPA PAC dollars have been working as advertised. Sure the amendment to add age 67 to the House version of FAA Reauthorization passed in committee (all 31 democrats voted against it), but the Commerce Committee in the Senate just left for summer break without marking up their bill. Every day delayed is more retirements celebrated. This ain't over till it's over. Even if it does get by the Senate, (democratic senators Kelly, Manchin, and Senema are onboard), the retroactivity included in the House version may not... which makes this delay so sweeeeet. Thanks to the democrats and the Biden administration, age 67 is still on hold. Please do the call to action if you haven't yet.
Back the PAC and vote Democrat.
Well, well. It's been a long year and 1000's of age 65 retirements since Lindsay and his merry band of republicans introduced the Let Experienced Pilots Fly Act. Good thing the democrats control the Senate. Your ALPA PAC dollars have been working as advertised. Sure the amendment to add age 67 to the House version of FAA Reauthorization passed in committee (all 31 democrats voted against it), but the Commerce Committee in the Senate just left for summer break without marking up their bill. Every day delayed is more retirements celebrated. This ain't over till it's over. Even if it does get by the Senate, (democratic senators Kelly, Manchin, and Senema are onboard), the retroactivity included in the House version may not... which makes this delay so sweeeeet. Thanks to the democrats and the Biden administration, age 67 is still on hold. Please do the call to action if you haven't yet.
Back the PAC and vote Democrat.
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