American has an AIP
05-21-2023 | 05:03 PM
#101
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,448
Likes: 6
Fair enough. I’m using a little poetic liberty, here. “Current book” is my shorthand for an offer that in my opinion, largely remains status quo. Case in point, notice how “no RSV assignments before 10am on Day 1” is being sold as a bargaining gain. Um, already have that one- thanks, though.
05-21-2023 | 06:31 PM
#102
On Reserve
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Fair enough. I’m using a little poetic liberty, here. “Current book” is my shorthand for an offer that in my opinion, largely remains status quo. Case in point, notice how “no RSV assignments before 10am on Day 1” is being sold as a bargaining gain. Um, already have that one- thanks, though.
/s/
05-21-2023 | 08:39 PM
#103
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 743
Likes: 19
Just to be clear I am 100% behind the union, wear my lanyard, don't do "dog & pony shows", and generally try to work as little as possible (but then that wasn't new 
). I also still think we get an offer by the end of Q2 which obviously now means the next 3 or 4 weeks. However, I just want to put a fine point on your comment as regards the company's initial offer. I would not characterize it as "current book". From the first comprehensive update here is a list of items which were already agreed upon in the first month and which mostly are gains albeit small gains, but gains none the less. I would also note that subsequent communications indicated several sections have now been closed. Presumably this means the company agreed to some of the "open" items from the 4/3 list.
Agreed:
). I also still think we get an offer by the end of Q2 which obviously now means the next 3 or 4 weeks. However, I just want to put a fine point on your comment as regards the company's initial offer. I would not characterize it as "current book". From the first comprehensive update here is a list of items which were already agreed upon in the first month and which mostly are gains albeit small gains, but gains none the less. I would also note that subsequent communications indicated several sections have now been closed. Presumably this means the company agreed to some of the "open" items from the 4/3 list.Agreed:
- Expanded furlough protection for all pilots
- Removal of 6 seats from all 76 seat RJs if a pilot that is on the seniority list at date of signing is furloughed
- Holiday pay
- Short training pay and credit increase
- Increase in distance learning pay
- Increase in International Override
- Critical coverage override of 25%
- Canada now included in international per diem
- Reimbursement for a second passport
- Increased parking reimbursement
- Improved crosstown pay
- No involuntary assignment before 10 a.m. on Day 1 of a reserve block
- Elimination of flexible day off (FDOs) for Global categories
- Option to split holy days off (HDOs) into two shorter periods in Global categories
- Voluntary Long Call Reserve lines where short call (SC) and field standby (FSB) is only through aggressive pick-up (APU)
- Reserves maintain original scheduled release time when deviating
- Increased restrictions on assigning Visiting Reserves
- All unused Short Call assignments receive 1 hour of additional minimum pay guarantee (MPG)
- Trip trades between reserves
- Reserve day-for-day trades
- Add Pay for reserve rolled days off
- Add Pay for late build Short Calls
- Improved release times if unused on last day of reserve
- Add Pay for voluntary assignments that start prior to 10 a.m. on Day 1
- Lineholder no longer involuntarily assigned FSB after loss of flying
- Improved opportunity to remain on your trip and avoid reassignment
- Stricter rules regarding reassignments transitioning your base on or after the last day of your original trip
- Prohibit reassignment into golden day off (GDO)
- Continuous blocks of AV days will be treated as a single block
- Reimbursement for expenses if delayed into vacation block
- G-line and LPA final within 24 hours of bid opening
- PBS timeline moved up two days
- Further reduced LPA during any involuntary furlough
- Protected transportation and hotels for DH deviations
- Improved pairing construction rules and limits
- Improved protections for trips that include All Night Flying
- Add Pay rig for long airport sits
- Increased average minimum day pay
- Improvements to OE blocker day pay and scheduling
- New premium pay option of 125% for straight pickup
- Improved contractual application of duty period extension Add Pay
- Advertised trips for drop now available to out of base pilots
- New option for pilot-to-pilot trip trades between pilots in different bases
- 777/787 all days off lost with first reassignment are restored
- All 756 days off lost with reassignments are restored
- DH only on day off eligible for day off restoration
- Improved lost day off restoration options
- Freeze starts at vacancy award
- Activation date at completion of LOE
- Protections for senior pilots with cancelled vacancies
- Stricter seniority protections for base trades
- First time Captain paid move
- Improved schedule protections for cancelled CQ training
- Add Pay for delayed training events
- Improved crew complement restrictions for training
- Protection for vacation when changing categories
- Annual vacation bidding improvements
- Pilot not eligible for FMLA can take a Personal Leave with medical benefits for FMLA qualifying event
- Improvements to Parental Leave including a paid portion
- Improvements to Maternity Leave in addition to paid portion
- Establishment of a Market Based Cash Balance Plan
- Vacation forfeiture deemed as eligible earnings for 401(k) contributions
- New reimbursement for FAA medical and increased reimbursement for EKG
- FAA required medical procedures not covered by insurance now covered by long term disability (LTD) plan
- Improved schedules and increased pay override for line check pilots (LCPs); paid for entire trip
- Increased Instructor pay cap
- Increased instructor-evaluator (IE) overrides
- Improved schedules for IEs
- Provisions to allow job share for Instructors
Even at Frontier, they were strictly forbidden from ever extending you into a day off, AND any reassignment had to be within the original footprint of the trip.
Lacking that should be an absolute NO VOTE for anyone. And with all the guys who have come from ULCC's with good work rules, it likely won't pass unless that is addressed
05-21-2023 | 10:09 PM
#104
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,448
Likes: 6
Huge is generous. A regressive legislative change to 117 is highly unlikely in my opinion. I’ll take the contractual language, but I’m not counting it as management moving across the aisle.
05-21-2023 | 10:17 PM
#105
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,150
Likes: 9
Just to be clear I am 100% behind the union, wear my lanyard, don't do "dog & pony shows", and generally try to work as little as possible (but then that wasn't new ). I also still think we get an offer by the end of Q2 which obviously now means the next 3 or 4 weeks. However, I just want to put a fine point on your comment as regards the company's initial offer. I would not characterize it as "current book". From the first comprehensive update here is a list of items which were already agreed upon in the first month and which mostly are gains albeit small gains, but gains none the less. I would also note that subsequent communications indicated several sections have now been closed. Presumably this means the company agreed to some of the "open" items from the 4/3 list.
Agreed:
). I also still think we get an offer by the end of Q2 which obviously now means the next 3 or 4 weeks. However, I just want to put a fine point on your comment as regards the company's initial offer. I would not characterize it as "current book". From the first comprehensive update here is a list of items which were already agreed upon in the first month and which mostly are gains albeit small gains, but gains none the less. I would also note that subsequent communications indicated several sections have now been closed. Presumably this means the company agreed to some of the "open" items from the 4/3 list.Agreed:
- Expanded furlough protection for all pilots
- Removal of 6 seats from all 76 seat RJs if a pilot that is on the seniority list at date of signing is furloughed
- Holiday pay
- Short training pay and credit increase
- Increase in distance learning pay
- Increase in International Override
- Critical coverage override of 25%
- Canada now included in international per diem
- Reimbursement for a second passport
- Increased parking reimbursement
- Improved crosstown pay
- No involuntary assignment before 10 a.m. on Day 1 of a reserve block
- Elimination of flexible day off (FDOs) for Global categories
- Option to split holy days off (HDOs) into two shorter periods in Global categories
- Voluntary Long Call Reserve lines where short call (SC) and field standby (FSB) is only through aggressive pick-up (APU)
- Reserves maintain original scheduled release time when deviating
- Increased restrictions on assigning Visiting Reserves
- All unused Short Call assignments receive 1 hour of additional minimum pay guarantee (MPG)
- Trip trades between reserves
- Reserve day-for-day trades
- Add Pay for reserve rolled days off
- Add Pay for late build Short Calls
- Improved release times if unused on last day of reserve
- Add Pay for voluntary assignments that start prior to 10 a.m. on Day 1
- Lineholder no longer involuntarily assigned FSB after loss of flying
- Improved opportunity to remain on your trip and avoid reassignment
- Stricter rules regarding reassignments transitioning your base on or after the last day of your original trip
- Prohibit reassignment into golden day off (GDO)
- Continuous blocks of AV days will be treated as a single block
- Reimbursement for expenses if delayed into vacation block
- G-line and LPA final within 24 hours of bid opening
- PBS timeline moved up two days
- Further reduced LPA during any involuntary furlough
- Protected transportation and hotels for DH deviations
- Improved pairing construction rules and limits
- Improved protections for trips that include All Night Flying
- Add Pay rig for long airport sits
- Increased average minimum day pay
- Improvements to OE blocker day pay and scheduling
- New premium pay option of 125% for straight pickup
- Improved contractual application of duty period extension Add Pay
- Advertised trips for drop now available to out of base pilots
- New option for pilot-to-pilot trip trades between pilots in different bases
- 777/787 all days off lost with first reassignment are restored
- All 756 days off lost with reassignments are restored
- DH only on day off eligible for day off restoration
- Improved lost day off restoration options
- Freeze starts at vacancy award
- Activation date at completion of LOE
- Protections for senior pilots with cancelled vacancies
- Stricter seniority protections for base trades
- First time Captain paid move
- Improved schedule protections for cancelled CQ training
- Add Pay for delayed training events
- Improved crew complement restrictions for training
- Protection for vacation when changing categories
- Annual vacation bidding improvements
- Pilot not eligible for FMLA can take a Personal Leave with medical benefits for FMLA qualifying event
- Improvements to Parental Leave including a paid portion
- Improvements to Maternity Leave in addition to paid portion
- Establishment of a Market Based Cash Balance Plan
- Vacation forfeiture deemed as eligible earnings for 401(k) contributions
- New reimbursement for FAA medical and increased reimbursement for EKG
- FAA required medical procedures not covered by insurance now covered by long term disability (LTD) plan
- Improved schedules and increased pay override for line check pilots (LCPs); paid for entire trip
- Increased Instructor pay cap
- Increased instructor-evaluator (IE) overrides
- Improved schedules for IEs
- Provisions to allow job share for Instructors
this is still seriously lacking significant work rule improvements
05-21-2023 | 11:27 PM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 3,195
Likes: 42
From: Gear slinger
Just to be clear I am 100% behind the union, wear my lanyard, don't do "dog & pony shows", and generally try to work as little as possible (but then that wasn't new ). I also still think we get an offer by the end of Q2 which obviously now means the next 3 or 4 weeks. However, I just want to put a fine point on your comment as regards the company's initial offer. I would not characterize it as "current book". From the first comprehensive update here is a list of items which were already agreed upon in the first month and which mostly are gains albeit small gains, but gains none the less. I would also note that subsequent communications indicated several sections have now been closed. Presumably this means the company agreed to some of the "open" items from the 4/3 list.
Agreed:
). I also still think we get an offer by the end of Q2 which obviously now means the next 3 or 4 weeks. However, I just want to put a fine point on your comment as regards the company's initial offer. I would not characterize it as "current book". From the first comprehensive update here is a list of items which were already agreed upon in the first month and which mostly are gains albeit small gains, but gains none the less. I would also note that subsequent communications indicated several sections have now been closed. Presumably this means the company agreed to some of the "open" items from the 4/3 list.Agreed:
- Expanded furlough protection for all pilots
- Removal of 6 seats from all 76 seat RJs if a pilot that is on the seniority list at date of signing is furloughed
- Holiday pay
- Short training pay and credit increase
- Increase in distance learning pay
- Increase in International Override
- Critical coverage override of 25%
- Canada now included in international per diem
- Reimbursement for a second passport
- Increased parking reimbursement
- Improved crosstown pay
- No involuntary assignment before 10 a.m. on Day 1 of a reserve block
- Elimination of flexible day off (FDOs) for Global categories
- Option to split holy days off (HDOs) into two shorter periods in Global categories
- Voluntary Long Call Reserve lines where short call (SC) and field standby (FSB) is only through aggressive pick-up (APU)
- Reserves maintain original scheduled release time when deviating
- Increased restrictions on assigning Visiting Reserves
- All unused Short Call assignments receive 1 hour of additional minimum pay guarantee (MPG)
- Trip trades between reserves
- Reserve day-for-day trades
- Add Pay for reserve rolled days off
- Add Pay for late build Short Calls
- Improved release times if unused on last day of reserve
- Add Pay for voluntary assignments that start prior to 10 a.m. on Day 1
- Lineholder no longer involuntarily assigned FSB after loss of flying
- Improved opportunity to remain on your trip and avoid reassignment
- Stricter rules regarding reassignments transitioning your base on or after the last day of your original trip
- Prohibit reassignment into golden day off (GDO)
- Continuous blocks of AV days will be treated as a single block
- Reimbursement for expenses if delayed into vacation block
- G-line and LPA final within 24 hours of bid opening
- PBS timeline moved up two days
- Further reduced LPA during any involuntary furlough
- Protected transportation and hotels for DH deviations
- Improved pairing construction rules and limits
- Improved protections for trips that include All Night Flying
- Add Pay rig for long airport sits
- Increased average minimum day pay
- Improvements to OE blocker day pay and scheduling
- New premium pay option of 125% for straight pickup
- Improved contractual application of duty period extension Add Pay
- Advertised trips for drop now available to out of base pilots
- New option for pilot-to-pilot trip trades between pilots in different bases
- 777/787 all days off lost with first reassignment are restored
- All 756 days off lost with reassignments are restored
- DH only on day off eligible for day off restoration
- Improved lost day off restoration options
- Freeze starts at vacancy award
- Activation date at completion of LOE
- Protections for senior pilots with cancelled vacancies
- Stricter seniority protections for base trades
- First time Captain paid move
- Improved schedule protections for cancelled CQ training
- Add Pay for delayed training events
- Improved crew complement restrictions for training
- Protection for vacation when changing categories
- Annual vacation bidding improvements
- Pilot not eligible for FMLA can take a Personal Leave with medical benefits for FMLA qualifying event
- Improvements to Parental Leave including a paid portion
- Improvements to Maternity Leave in addition to paid portion
- Establishment of a Market Based Cash Balance Plan
- Vacation forfeiture deemed as eligible earnings for 401(k) contributions
- New reimbursement for FAA medical and increased reimbursement for EKG
- FAA required medical procedures not covered by insurance now covered by long term disability (LTD) plan
- Improved schedules and increased pay override for line check pilots (LCPs); paid for entire trip
- Increased Instructor pay cap
- Increased instructor-evaluator (IE) overrides
- Improved schedules for IEs
- Provisions to allow job share for Instructors
05-22-2023 | 03:27 AM
#107
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,631
Likes: 80
Global reserve needs to die.
FDO needs to die.
FSB needs to die.
Unlimited short call conversions....well, you get the point.
although, I would be open to voluntary SC/FSB that paid extra (add pay only) regardless of whether you were used.
FDO needs to die.
FSB needs to die.
Unlimited short call conversions....well, you get the point.
although, I would be open to voluntary SC/FSB that paid extra (add pay only) regardless of whether you were used.
05-22-2023 | 05:34 AM
#108
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,124
Likes: 70
From: AOG
100% agree. If the MEC votes in anything that does not meet this conditions as well as many of the DL terms for reserve QOL, then they need to be recalled. The argument of “global reserve is a part of the business model” is a copout. Fix it or be prepared to defend against your recall vote.
05-22-2023 | 05:34 AM
#109
On Reserve
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 108
Likes: 13
there’s a lot from the management and business side I don’t particularly like or agree with about united lately. Digging their heels in to keep outdated work rules that frankly most airlines abandoned years ago is only one aspect.
I’m a business major and have done several deeps dives, enough to know what I like and don’t like. That’s more personal. But if pilots are basing their future on what United is today and what cards management is showing and the direction they’re going it’s not a good look. Can’t bank on an unknown future and the direction they may or may not go. All you have to go on is their philosophy and direction they’re currently headed.
I know you’ll get a good contract, hopefully sooner than later. You deserve it. Just hate seeing mgmt stall and delay when the current pilot climate doesn’t suggest they should
I’m a business major and have done several deeps dives, enough to know what I like and don’t like. That’s more personal. But if pilots are basing their future on what United is today and what cards management is showing and the direction they’re going it’s not a good look. Can’t bank on an unknown future and the direction they may or may not go. All you have to go on is their philosophy and direction they’re currently headed.
I know you’ll get a good contract, hopefully sooner than later. You deserve it. Just hate seeing mgmt stall and delay when the current pilot climate doesn’t suggest they should
Hey look guys we got a BUSINESS MAJOR here!
05-22-2023 | 06:04 AM
#110
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 0
From: UAL retired
I totally agree, just making the point the company wasn't starting at zero. They have offered some things, and actually I think one line is potentially huge.
- Voluntary Long Call Reserve lines where short call (SC) and field standby (FSB) is only through aggressive pick-up (APU)
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