Those cost are eventually agreed to by the company and the union to get to an AIP. Certain items will also affect other airlines differently based on other sections of their contracts and respective airline operations. It’s not as simple as cherry-picking parts of every contract out there and demanding that. The cost of certain items will vary between carriers. If Delta adds X, or takes away Y, the cost of doing the same at another airline could be very different without also factoring in all of the other sections and airline operations.

The one thing that I am confident in….. we could get industry leading in every possible way but lose the dry cleaning allowance and APC would go on for pages about how the agreement is a concession.

 

OMG take your meds buddy

 

Well, I'm not about to start doing my own ironing. They can proceed as they see fit.

 

Besides first class deadheads, what exactly in our current UPA or our asks for our future UPA exceed delta? I haven't seen anything.

 

I mean, you’re not wrong, but that’s not what’s happening here. The union’s been pretty transparent about what they’re asking for & in my opinion there’s nothing “pie in the sky” about it. In fact, for a company that’s repeatedly gone on about their intention to be “industry leading”, it’s about the least you could do & even arguably claim to be the best. In fact, as time goes on, more & more of our requests seem to be matching a new industry standard rather than any kind of leadership.Meanwhile, SK seems to think Delta + $1 & current book is a reasonable offer.

So what message should we be unifying ourselves on- the fact that a few APC jockeys have unrealistic expectations, or the fact that our company is trying to sell us on a few extra dollars & the worst labor contract in the industry? We don’t need people doing the company’s PR work for them. Get behind the union & hold management to account for their promises.

 

I think that this MEC is doing a good job so far. They are not rushing to an agreement, they are holding firm, and the message is consistent. I am behind the union and agree with the message, but I also realize that any potential TA at any airline won’t please everyone, nor will a pilot group ever get everything that they want. I also understand that the limiting factor to an agreement at any airline is total cost and how operations could be affected. Our job is to maximize financial and QOL gains within the confines of a cost structure that the other side of the table will eventually except.

 

Well, sort of. What I take issue with is the idea that cost is set & the union only has the ability to shuffle pieces around within a predetermined amount. To illustrate, the company’s initial offer (Delta rates + current book) is way less than we are asking them to spend; & as they come around to various provisions without ALPA ceding ground in other areas, the total dollar amount is going up. So part of “our job” is to challenge & change the “confines of the cost structure the company is willing to accept”- not just to operate within it.

 

I agree and we need to push their limit, but there is going to be a limit. They will eventually agree to AA and DL plus a little, but they won’t sign off on AA/DL plus a lot.

 

Right. So in our present situation where the union is asking for Delta plus a little & the company is stuck on Delta minus a lot, I’m just not seeing the relevance of a conversation about pilots- rather than management- having unreasonable expectations.

 

Just to be clear I am 100% behind the union, wear my lanyard, don't do "dog & pony shows", and generally try to work as little as possible (but then that wasn't new ). I also still think we get an offer by the end of Q2 which obviously now means the next 3 or 4 weeks. However, I just want to put a fine point on your comment as regards the company's initial offer. I would not characterize it as "current book". From the first comprehensive update here is a list of items which were already agreed upon in the first month and which mostly are gains albeit small gains, but gains none the less. I would also note that subsequent communications indicated several sections have now been closed. Presumably this means the company agreed to some of the "open" items from the 4/3 list.


Agreed:

• Expanded furlough protection for all pilots
• Removal of 6 seats from all 76 seat RJs if a pilot that is on the seniority list at date of signing is furloughed
• Holiday pay
• Short training pay and credit increase

• Increase in distance learning pay
• Increase in International Override
• Critical coverage override of 25%

• Canada now included in international per diem
• Reimbursement for a second passport
• Increased parking reimbursement
• Improved crosstown pay

• No involuntary assignment before 10 a.m. on Day 1 of a reserve block
• Elimination of flexible day off (FDOs) for Global categories
• Option to split holy days off (HDOs) into two shorter periods in Global categories
• Voluntary Long Call Reserve lines where short call (SC) and field standby (FSB) is only through aggressive pick-up (APU)
• Reserves maintain original scheduled release time when deviating
• Increased restrictions on assigning Visiting Reserves
• All unused Short Call assignments receive 1 hour of additional minimum pay guarantee (MPG)
• Trip trades between reserves
• Reserve day-for-day trades
• Add Pay for reserve rolled days off
• Add Pay for late build Short Calls
• Improved release times if unused on last day of reserve
• Add Pay for voluntary assignments that start prior to 10 a.m. on Day 1
• Lineholder no longer involuntarily assigned FSB after loss of flying
• Improved opportunity to remain on your trip and avoid reassignment
• Stricter rules regarding reassignments transitioning your base on or after the last day of your original trip
• Prohibit reassignment into golden day off (GDO)
• Continuous blocks of AV days will be treated as a single block
• Reimbursement for expenses if delayed into vacation block
• G-line and LPA final within 24 hours of bid opening
• PBS timeline moved up two days
• Further reduced LPA during any involuntary furlough
• Protected transportation and hotels for DH deviations
• Improved pairing construction rules and limits
• Improved protections for trips that include All Night Flying
• Add Pay rig for long airport sits
• Increased average minimum day pay
• Improvements to OE blocker day pay and scheduling
• New premium pay option of 125% for straight pickup
• Improved contractual application of duty period extension Add Pay
• Advertised trips for drop now available to out of base pilots
• New option for pilot-to-pilot trip trades between pilots in different bases
• 777/787 all days off lost with first reassignment are restored
• All 756 days off lost with reassignments are restored
• DH only on day off eligible for day off restoration
• Improved lost day off restoration options
• Freeze starts at vacancy award
• Activation date at completion of LOE
• Protections for senior pilots with cancelled vacancies
• Stricter seniority protections for base trades
• First time Captain paid move
• Improved schedule protections for cancelled CQ training
• Add Pay for delayed training events
• Improved crew complement restrictions for training
• Protection for vacation when changing categories
• Annual vacation bidding improvements
• Pilot not eligible for FMLA can take a Personal Leave with medical benefits for FMLA qualifying event
• Improvements to Parental Leave including a paid portion
• Improvements to Maternity Leave in addition to paid portion
• Establishment of a Market Based Cash Balance Plan
• Vacation forfeiture deemed as eligible earnings for 401(k) contributions
• New reimbursement for FAA medical and increased reimbursement for EKG
• FAA required medical procedures not covered by insurance now covered by long term disability (LTD) plan
• Improved schedules and increased pay override for line check pilots (LCPs); paid for entire trip
• Increased Instructor pay cap
• Increased instructor-evaluator (IE) overrides
• Improved schedules for IEs
• Provisions to allow job share for Instructors