American has an AIP
05-20-2023 | 10:28 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2018
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really pulling for united pilots but even while classes might be “full” and people coming in droves I’m positive I’m not the only one passing on united. It’s not for the current contract but the way negotiations have played out. It speaks volume on management and what they think of their pilot group and what they want for the airline. I’ll stay at my current carrier over United and the direction management is steering the company. They’re going to miss out on a lot of quality candidates that would have otherwise preferred united. Hard to watch from the outside.
It’s just telling that for a new hire if this is the trend over a career that United will be last to play ball and management wants to play the long game how many people will still see united as a destination for an entire career. Delta specifically said they’d make their pilots the best paid and turned around and did that plus gave them great qol items. For Kirby to really take as long as this to really get a deal done says to me on the outside considering united that they care more about their bottom line than making their pilots happy, proud and shown to be valued as the best pilots in the world.
How many CEO's do you think you will see in a 30 year career if you stay at 1 carrier?
05-20-2023 | 10:42 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2016
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The captain who made a 90 second spiel on my last commute about how great United next is going to be and how excited we should get for the better interiors and wifi disagrees with you.
05-20-2023 | 10:46 AM
#54
Line Holder
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 516
Likes: 3
From: 787 right
It’s just telling that for a new hire if this is the trend over a career that United will be last to play ball and management wants to play the long game how many people will still see united as a destination for an entire career. Delta specifically said they’d make their pilots the best paid and turned around and did that plus gave them great qol items. For Kirby to really take as long as this to really get a deal done says to me on the outside considering united that they care more about their bottom line than making their pilots happy, proud and shown to be valued as the best pilots in the world.
Regarding AA’s AIP… That helps us and could hurt us. Helps because it puts more pressure on our greedy CEO but hurts because AA’s deal probably won’t help our negotiating position. Friends at AA say Captains they fly with are an automatic yes vote if they get Delta rates. Would be interesting if UA came out with a better TA while AA was voting on theirs like they did to us. Kirby would do that because it would force AA’s TA to fail and eventually cause their deal to be more expensive than ours. Another way to play this if I was Kirby would be to keep slow rolling us and try to say look, “American agreed to a contract that has terrible work rules.” That would work for about 5 more months then Kirby is out of time. We will have our AIP most likely by Halloween and it will be better that American’s contract but not as good as Delta’s.
Last edited by Half wing; 05-20-2023 at 11:04 AM.
05-20-2023 | 11:03 AM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2023
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: 737 CA
You are 100% correct. Kirby does not give a crap about the employees/pilots, all he cares about is the bottom line and his own pockets. Kirby is not Oscar that is for sure.
Regarding AA’s AIP… That helps us and could hurt us. Helps because it puts more pressure on our greedy CEO but hurts because AA’s deal probably won’t help our negotiating position. Friends at AA say Captains they fly with are an automatic yes vote if they get Delta rates. Would be interesting if UA came out with a better TA while AA was voting on theirs like they did to us. Kirby would do that because it would force AA’s TA to fail and eventually cause their deal to be more expensive than ours. Another way to play this if I was Kirby would be to keep slow rolling us and try to say look, “American agreed to a contract that has terrible work rules.” That would work for about 5 more months then Kirby is out of time. We will have our AIP no later than Halloween and it will be better that American’s contract but not as good as Delta’s.
Regarding AA’s AIP… That helps us and could hurt us. Helps because it puts more pressure on our greedy CEO but hurts because AA’s deal probably won’t help our negotiating position. Friends at AA say Captains they fly with are an automatic yes vote if they get Delta rates. Would be interesting if UA came out with a better TA while AA was voting on theirs like they did to us. Kirby would do that because it would force AA’s TA to fail and eventually cause their deal to be more expensive than ours. Another way to play this if I was Kirby would be to keep slow rolling us and try to say look, “American agreed to a contract that has terrible work rules.” That would work for about 5 more months then Kirby is out of time. We will have our AIP no later than Halloween and it will be better that American’s contract but not as good as Delta’s.
The good news is PP is ticking up. Should be a lucrative summer for the senior CAs and FOs. That will show SK.
05-20-2023 | 11:04 AM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,318
Likes: 0
You are 100% correct. Kirby does not give a crap about the employees/pilots, all he cares about is the bottom line and his own pockets. Kirby is not Oscar that is for sure.
Regarding AA’s AIP… That helps us and could hurt us. Helps because it puts more pressure on our greedy CEO but hurts because AA’s deal probably won’t help our negotiating position. Friends at AA say Captains they fly with are an automatic yes vote if they get Delta rates. Would be interesting if UA came out with a better TA while AA was voting on theirs like they did to us. Kirby would do that because it would force AA’s TA to fail and eventually cause their deal to be more expensive than ours. Another way to play this if I was Kirby would be to keep slow rolling us and try to say look, “American agreed to a contract that has terrible work rules.” That would work for about 5 more months then Kirby is out of time. We will have our AIP no later than Halloween and it will be better that American’s contract but not as good as Delta’s.
Regarding AA’s AIP… That helps us and could hurt us. Helps because it puts more pressure on our greedy CEO but hurts because AA’s deal probably won’t help our negotiating position. Friends at AA say Captains they fly with are an automatic yes vote if they get Delta rates. Would be interesting if UA came out with a better TA while AA was voting on theirs like they did to us. Kirby would do that because it would force AA’s TA to fail and eventually cause their deal to be more expensive than ours. Another way to play this if I was Kirby would be to keep slow rolling us and try to say look, “American agreed to a contract that has terrible work rules.” That would work for about 5 more months then Kirby is out of time. We will have our AIP no later than Halloween and it will be better that American’s contract but not as good as Delta’s.
05-20-2023 | 11:43 AM
#57
Banned
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 1,164
Likes: 2
There’s a ton of work rule improvements in the AA AIP that have been published weeks ago. I don’t know where you’re getting that “American agreed to a contract with terrible work rules”, or even the idea that we might agree to something like that. And as long as United has airport standby, criticizing others’ work rules is just laughable sorry.
But hey, those WB vacancies available to NH’s, upgrade’s available in one year, that’s just growth for United next and has no relation to the worst work rules for WB reserves and worse QOL out of the big 3 currently for NB CA’s.
Last edited by LAXtoDEN; 05-20-2023 at 12:08 PM.
05-20-2023 | 12:23 PM
#58
On Reserve
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
You’re correct, it is laughable how clueless SOME United pilots like “half wing” are with Delta’s and American’s work rules compared to United. I don’t even think our DCI (Delta connection: SkyWest, Republic, Endeavor) regionals allow airport standby in their respective contracts… think about that. I constantly read crap from United pilots portraying their work rules as a close second to our previous contact at Delta. Nope, that’s laughable to think you’re anywhere close to industry standard. They’re dead last when comparing legacy work rule contracts and freaking Spirit lapped them in work rules years ago.
But hey, those WB vacancies available to NH’s, upgrade’s available in one year, that’s just growth for United next and has no relation to the worst work rules for WB reserves and worse QOL out of the big 3 currently for NB CA’s.
But hey, those WB vacancies available to NH’s, upgrade’s available in one year, that’s just growth for United next and has no relation to the worst work rules for WB reserves and worse QOL out of the big 3 currently for NB CA’s.
05-20-2023 | 01:02 PM
#59
Down goes Frazier
Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 706
Likes: 178
From: AB FO
For example: you have a 4 day reserve bucket, they assign you a 4 day trip, day 4 is one leg back to your home base in the morning, they would sometimes add an Airport Standby block for a few hours. I was never given an assignment during that small block. I would go grab a coffee and watch the morning departures, then go home.
You’re correct about the misery of sitting standby at the airport for 8 hours. I received a few of those assignments during my employment at SkyWest before the TA. On paper it doesn’t look that bad, bring a computer and get some work done while getting compensated. It’s almost the same as being at home on short call right? Yeah no thanks, after a few hours it felt like a prison sentence.
Last edited by RippinClapBombs; 05-20-2023 at 01:22 PM.
05-20-2023 | 01:31 PM
#60
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,450
Likes: 8
The PPD “extras” don’t have to drop to zero to impact NPS- declining averages are enough to bring it down. By this point I imagine it’s only the very devoted few who are pushing against the growing wave of apathy.
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