American has an AIP
05-20-2023 | 06:52 PM
#81
Line Holder
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 516
Likes: 3
From: 787 right
You’re correct, it is laughable how clueless SOME United pilots like “half wing” are with Delta’s and American’s work rules compared to United. I don’t even think our DCI (Delta connection: SkyWest, Republic, Endeavor) regionals allow airport standby in their respective contracts… think about that. I constantly read crap from United pilots portraying their work rules as a close second to our previous contact at Delta. Nope, that’s laughable to think you’re anywhere close to industry standard. They’re dead last when comparing legacy work rule contracts and freaking Spirit lapped them in work rules years ago.
But hey, those WB vacancies available to NH’s, upgrade’s available in one year, that’s just growth for United next and has no relation to the worst work rules for WB reserves and worse QOL out of the big 3 currently for NB CA’s.
But hey, those WB vacancies available to NH’s, upgrade’s available in one year, that’s just growth for United next and has no relation to the worst work rules for WB reserves and worse QOL out of the big 3 currently for NB CA’s.
Are you in Denver now? U should come to United, the 787 trips are pretty sweet out of Denver. All 3 day trips. Hope you make it to a WB some day.
05-20-2023 | 06:54 PM
#82
Line Holder
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 516
Likes: 3
From: 787 right
Not sure what you mean. Don’t you want another carrier to exceed your rate so you can get a snap up?
05-20-2023 | 07:16 PM
#83
Banned
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 1,164
Likes: 2
Whoa, sounds like someone is a little butt hurt. Probably just upset that United is number one over the Atlantic now. Always belonged to Delta before.
Are you in Denver now? U should come to United, the 787 trips are pretty sweet out of Denver. All 3 day trips. Hope you make it to a WB some day.
Are you in Denver now? U should come to United, the 787 trips are pretty sweet out of Denver. All 3 day trips. Hope you make it to a WB some day.
LAX to DEN was my first flight as a kid. I drive to work at Delta. At the age I was hired I’ll be flying WB… from the left seat.
You done now clown?
Last edited by LAXtoDEN; 05-20-2023 at 07:31 PM.
05-20-2023 | 08:07 PM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 3,191
Likes: 161
Hmm, the arrogance is really coming out….
You do know Delta, AA, and United is all hiring similar quality candidates right? Just because someone doesn’t have a degree doesn’t necessarily makes them terrible candidate.. Just because someone who doesn’t have regional 121 PIC time doesn’t make them a terrible candidate… Just like someone who comes from ULCC/ACMI doesn’t make them a terrible candidate. Let alone it’s a terrible assumption to assume folks coming from ULCC/ACMI carriers DNGAF about work rules…
You do know Delta, AA, and United is all hiring similar quality candidates right? Just because someone doesn’t have a degree doesn’t necessarily makes them terrible candidate.. Just because someone who doesn’t have regional 121 PIC time doesn’t make them a terrible candidate… Just like someone who comes from ULCC/ACMI doesn’t make them a terrible candidate. Let alone it’s a terrible assumption to assume folks coming from ULCC/ACMI carriers DNGAF about work rules…
05-20-2023 | 08:17 PM
#85
On Reserve
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
I’d like to see that too, but being that I’m in the tail end of my career and having gone through numerous contract cycles, I understand how the game is played. The measure will be total cost. It is up to the negotiating committee to determine how to spread that cost out to reach an acceptable agreement. When we get a TA, some will be pleased and some won’t. There will be significant gains, but it’s not like anyone who has been down this road before honestly expects every single section to be “industry leading”.
05-20-2023 | 09:04 PM
#86
On Reserve
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
From an AA buddy:
On May 18, 2023, APA and American Airlines successfully negotiated agreements in principle on several remaining economic items, including pay rates. These agreements complement previously agreed-to items, including enhanced work rules and scheduling improvements that focus on quality of life and operational integrity. We will publish a high-level summary and provide more details in the coming days.
However, we understand that the desire for details is shared by all as we move forward with this process. To provide some of those details, we offer the following selected highlights addressed in this agreement. The below bullet points do not fully detail the changes to the agreement, are not all inclusive, and are for informational purposes only.
Summarized Highlights
Note: All “May 2” dates are based on an Aug. 1, 2023, ratification that will change if the agreement is not ratified Aug. 1.
On May 18, 2023, APA and American Airlines successfully negotiated agreements in principle on several remaining economic items, including pay rates. These agreements complement previously agreed-to items, including enhanced work rules and scheduling improvements that focus on quality of life and operational integrity. We will publish a high-level summary and provide more details in the coming days.
However, we understand that the desire for details is shared by all as we move forward with this process. To provide some of those details, we offer the following selected highlights addressed in this agreement. The below bullet points do not fully detail the changes to the agreement, are not all inclusive, and are for informational purposes only.
Summarized Highlights
Note: All “May 2” dates are based on an Aug. 1, 2023, ratification that will change if the agreement is not ratified Aug. 1.
- Duration – 4 years; Amendable date: Aug. 1, 2027
- Back Pay – (based on eligible earnings)
- 2020: 4%
- 2021: 4%
- 2022: 14%
- 2023: ~21% (3 months preceding DOS (thus effective May 2, 2023)
- Pay rates that meet or exceed Delta pay rates:
- (DOS ~21% increase)
- May 2, 2024: 5%
- May 2, 2025: 4%
- May 2, 2026: 4%
- May 2, 2027: 3% Amendable year raise
- Increase of 401(k) contributions increase to:
- 17% on May 2, 2024
- 18% on May 2, 2026
- Realign pay step date (pay longevity) to date of hire for all pilots who have not reached 12th year pay.
- Establish a Market Based Cash Balance Plan.
- Sick sell-back – or – Retiree Health Reimbursement Arrangement (RHRA) option for pilots at retirement at 66% of the value of accrued sick bank (up to $200,000).
- Vacation year 2024/2025 and beyond: 4:35pay per day.
- Vacation year 2025/2026 and beyond: 4:00credit per day.
- Increase of vacation accrual to 35 days at 19 years of service.
- Long-haul narrowbody (NB) override: CA $8.00/FO $6.00 on all NB flying to Europe, South America (south of the equator), and Hawaii.
- International Override: CA $6.50/FO $4.50 (includes Canada).
- Improved profit sharing to the Delta formula (10% up to $2.5B pre-tax profit, 20% for anything above).
- Increase training pay to 5:00 per day.
- Increase (long course) training pay for Initial, Upgrade, Transition to 3:05 per day.
- Holiday pay for nine (9) holidays of an additional 5:15 for each designated holiday duty touches (includes simulator training, DHD’s to/from training, OE, and CKP).
- Deadhead (DHD) pays greater of scheduled or actual if pilot on aircraft.
- Jumpseat: Captain may coordinate to account for expected taxi fuel burn to offset jumpseat occupant.
- Pairing Construction Limits:
- 1- and 2-day pairings: minimum of 20%
- 4-day pairings: average maximum of 38% in a rolling 12-month period, max 43% in any month
- 5-day pairings: average max of 8% in a rolling 12-month period, max of 10% in any month
- Elimination of ACARS use for scheduling purposes.
- Newly developed pilot-centric Electronic Communication System (ECS).
- No DHD prior to redeye flight segment on allocated sequences.
- 2:00 hours pay, no credit for sequences that release between 0000-0159.
- Development of graduated premium scale:
- 50%, 75%, 100%
- Movement of pilot DFP only with pilot consent (no moveable DFP).
- Adjustments to reserve assignment system utilizing buckets and seniority.
- Company may not search or schedule reserve pilot to fly in the lineholder month.
- Reserves reassigned will be paid in accordance with the reassignment pay provisions.
- If a reserve pilot is scheduled into a DFP (no later than noon), the pilot will receive 5:15pay/no credit (above guarantee) and the DFP must be restored within the current month; if the DFP cannot be restored (e.g., remainder of month consists of only DFPs), or the pilot elects to not have the DFP restored, the pilot will receive an additional 5:15 pay/no credit (above guarantee).
- DFP trading via TTS-like system with transparency and conditions.
- Long Call increased to 14 hours outside of DOTC.
- Sit rig to pay for all sit time, including due to delays, reassignments, and reserve assignments, for all block-in to block-out time in excess of 2:30
- ALV (Average Line Value) window reduced to 74-82 hours, with conditional flex up.
- Reassignments will pay 50% premium for segments in the current/first duty period of a reassignment and 100% premium of all segments in subsequent duty period until the pilot is returned to original sequence or domicile.
- Pilot shared sequences implemented at DOS.
- Sequence Protection, Recovery Obligation, and Replacement Flying improvements that increase pilot optionality.
- Adjustments and protections surrounding NB Split Duty Pairings.
- Min pay rig of 7:45
- Max 2 flight segments (1 outbound, 1 inbound)
- Max total scheduled block time: 4:15
- Check Pilots
- 6.0-hour min day including schoolhouse work.
- 20% override for all X-Type schoolhouse work.
- 15-day standard month (Company can schedule up to 17): 16th day and greater at overtime (additional 2.5 hours/day above 15 days).
- X & L Type CKP paid 12th year pay for what can hold in 4-part bid status.
- Create Line Check Pilot (LCP) position.
- LCP bid with PBS
- 25% override pay for all Flight Standards work performed.
- Create Instructor Pilot (IP) position.
- IP paid highest bid status can hold capped at 12th year WB FO.
- 15% override pay for IP work performed.
- Minimum of 4 vacancy bid awards annually.
- Long Term Disability (LTD):
- New LTD
- Monthly Benefit: 50% of Pre-Disability Earnings, no cap, fully pensionable.
- Removal of all offsets.
- Reduce elimination period from 90 days to 60 days.
- Imputed Income Option: annual election would allow LTD benefits to be “tax-free.”
- Improvements to Existing LTD Plans
- Increase monthly benefit by 30%.
- Remove ALL remaining offsets.
- Pilot on LTD and employed by AA as a Sim-P may continue to receive current LTD benefit.
- Life insurance increase to $500,000.
- FAA first Class Medical reimbursement of up to $278 or $457 with EKG.
- New LTD
/s/
05-20-2023 | 09:06 PM
#87
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,631
Likes: 80
05-21-2023 | 04:38 AM
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,657
Likes: 116
No, I’ve just been down this road a few times. Delta didn’t get all that they wanted, and we won’t either. Parts of our next deal will be industry leading, parts won’t, but to think that we’ll get a deal that exceeds American and Delta in every possible way is foolish. The total package will contain significant improvements in all sections, just not everything that we would like. The cutoff will be total cost. We are simply not going to get a deal, with or without mediation, that far exceeds American and Delta in total cost. We will get one that will be on par with or slightly more. How we allocate those cost between the sections is up to our negotiating committee and MEC.
05-21-2023 | 04:51 AM
#89
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Joined: Sep 2022
Posts: 394
Likes: 0
No, I’ve just been down this road a few times. Delta didn’t get all that they wanted, and we won’t either. Parts of our next deal will be industry leading, parts won’t, but to think that we’ll get a deal that exceeds American and Delta in every possible way is foolish. The total package will contain significant improvements in all sections, just not everything that we would like. The cutoff will be total cost. We are simply not going to get a deal, with or without mediation, that far exceeds American and Delta in total cost. We will get one that will be on par with or slightly more. How we allocate those cost between the sections is up to our negotiating committee and MEC.
except these companies can arbitrarily assign a cost to any provision. It’s not something like retirement, hard or soft pay that have actual quantifiable value. It’s the qol items, short call conversion, airport standby etc that they just make up a value to either have it or get rid of it. UAL can and may very well put an exorbitant cost on those old rules.
05-21-2023 | 04:53 AM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
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