CAL 170 LEC Update
10-04-2010, 01:41 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B737 CAPT IAH
Posts: 1,130
Rick's prot'ege'
Originally Posted by Captain Bligh
Many of his constituency complain that he wont answer them either. Allegedly, he views himself as a student of, in fact Dubinsky's protégé. He has accomplished virtually nothing with the possible exception of getting the crew room washrooms decommissioned and moving management to reduce the size of the base by transferring flying. They have acted to punish him and the pilots for electing him.
This update is not from the same pen if you had been a fan of previous Magenta Lines. Please accept apologies from those of us who have grown wary of this LEC-REP.
This update is not from the same pen if you had been a fan of previous Magenta Lines. Please accept apologies from those of us who have grown wary of this LEC-REP.
I won't comment on Dubo's merits, or lack thereof. Suffice it to say, our scope issues don't just stem from our BK contract but also gives given in C2000. That and many more "senior-centric" gains that were negotiated.
BTW, he still owes me a bottle of McCallen, but that is another story.....
Haven't seen him since walking through the C concourse in ORD in 2005. Should have made him pay up. The bet was about US Air version 2.0 that of course never occurred. He supported that merger in concept, BTW. You think egos are involved in this merger?
Lee
10-04-2010, 01:51 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B737 CAPT IAH
Posts: 1,130
Both sides bring good and bad.
Originally Posted by Rocketiii
The same here, but for different reasons. I don't approve of the public comments of one lec against another. But I don't care that he mentions the positives of cal in the integration. Do you all really think it's not being hammered out just like that in negotiations? What is wrong saying that cal has the massive presence in the world's largest population center? I'm sorry he didn't recognize uals hold on Denver 
as was posted earliar. I haven't posted much so the kumbaya can chant on, but this is a business. We have a ton of ****ed off pilots and I have no problem with a guy from jersey rallying the troops like union guys from jersey do. I'm sorry you guys don't like it, but until we have a sLi and jcba then I am still in one part of this group of cal guys. And I want my guys busting ass to get me the best deal possible. And just as many ual guys on this forum have opinions that sound ridiculous to cal guys. For instance referencing how good you and your contract was a decade ago and the implications of that or ratio of widebodies now that you guys lost scope. We laugh about that but ual guys get fired up. "don't say we have old airplanes, don't say we have miserable morale and customer service...". I'm getting a little fed up with the group hug stuff. I hold zero animosity towards any ual guy and I agree we must fight together force jcba. But the comments about our scabs when y'all have plenty also is just naive. If you want to talk about a napoleon complex, take a look at how every positive post about cal is taken as some sort of implied bash of ual. We are independent contractors til we are operationally merged. If you all are so worried about our group fighting tooth and nail for every seniority spot, then you better call your negotiators and tell them to step up their aggressiveness because I guarantee our guys are fighting like hell. And if I was on your side, I'd be upset if my group wasn't fighting that way. I'm not going to be flamed for not patting everyone on the ass here or not promoting unity. We are the ones that have to go to work and say calxxx in united livery, take pictures in front of our airplanes before they say united on them,have to tell people it's ok when they say sorry to hear about the end of continental, or hear jokes about how the service will deteriorate to a ual level now. Those are facts. That is the report from the line. I will be a united pilot when I have a number on the list, a jcba and a united callsign. Until then I want my guys fighting for me. Just as i assume you want. And I don't apologize for saying us, our, united or cal. That is needed for clarity. Let's all keep the napoleon complexes in check on both sides. Cal was in great shape with a great fleet and healthy, growing and advancing it's employees. There is nothing to apologize for there and that doesn't make this a post of ours is bigger. You all have plenty to be proud of too. But right now we each have negotiators busting their butts for our individual butts. And I wouldn't have it any other way. Time to be big boys and not be so sensitive. Oh yeah, kumbaya. Let's see how much kumbaya there is if the list doesn't go the way y'all want. We all are fighting for what we feel is right. Or at least supporting those who are fighting for us. 
. Be proud of your side and fight like hell for your seniority number. Cheers. And this post wasn't a response totally to the quoted pilot and typed on iPhone
as was posted earliar. I haven't posted much so the kumbaya can chant on, but this is a business. We have a ton of ****ed off pilots and I have no problem with a guy from jersey rallying the troops like union guys from jersey do. I'm sorry you guys don't like it, but until we have a sLi and jcba then I am still in one part of this group of cal guys. And I want my guys busting ass to get me the best deal possible. And just as many ual guys on this forum have opinions that sound ridiculous to cal guys. For instance referencing how good you and your contract was a decade ago and the implications of that or ratio of widebodies now that you guys lost scope. We laugh about that but ual guys get fired up. "don't say we have old airplanes, don't say we have miserable morale and customer service...". I'm getting a little fed up with the group hug stuff. I hold zero animosity towards any ual guy and I agree we must fight together force jcba. But the comments about our scabs when y'all have plenty also is just naive. If you want to talk about a napoleon complex, take a look at how every positive post about cal is taken as some sort of implied bash of ual. We are independent contractors til we are operationally merged. If you all are so worried about our group fighting tooth and nail for every seniority spot, then you better call your negotiators and tell them to step up their aggressiveness because I guarantee our guys are fighting like hell. And if I was on your side, I'd be upset if my group wasn't fighting that way. I'm not going to be flamed for not patting everyone on the ass here or not promoting unity. We are the ones that have to go to work and say calxxx in united livery, take pictures in front of our airplanes before they say united on them,have to tell people it's ok when they say sorry to hear about the end of continental, or hear jokes about how the service will deteriorate to a ual level now. Those are facts. That is the report from the line. I will be a united pilot when I have a number on the list, a jcba and a united callsign. Until then I want my guys fighting for me. Just as i assume you want. And I don't apologize for saying us, our, united or cal. That is needed for clarity. Let's all keep the napoleon complexes in check on both sides. Cal was in great shape with a great fleet and healthy, growing and advancing it's employees. There is nothing to apologize for there and that doesn't make this a post of ours is bigger. You all have plenty to be proud of too. But right now we each have negotiators busting their butts for our individual butts. And I wouldn't have it any other way. Time to be big boys and not be so sensitive. Oh yeah, kumbaya. Let's see how much kumbaya there is if the list doesn't go the way y'all want. We all are fighting for what we feel is right. Or at least supporting those who are fighting for us. . Be proud of your side and fight like hell for your seniority number. Cheers. And this post wasn't a response totally to the quoted pilot and typed on iPhoneLook, I hope no one expects either side to roll-over. Nor, do I expect management to roll-over.
Just show some restraint when it comes to a publicly viewable update.
Show your bravado where it counts. A true leader has the trust of his/her LEC and can assure them their back is covered.
Again, it isn't his position that is the issue. It is the lack of restraint.....EWR or not. You think that their aren't the same type of mentality folks in ORD. Think again....
Frats,
Lee
10-04-2010, 01:55 PM
#33
Ben Salley
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Left
Posts: 924
Originally Posted by Lambourne
Look, I didn't want the merger either. However, it is here and it is now. We either get together and pull on the same end of the rope or we wind up like those knuckleheads at US Air. own by Jayson. Maybe you guys could do the same.
L
10-04-2010, 03:05 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 230
Originally Posted by Rocketiii
The same here, but for different reasons. I don't approve of the public comments of one lec against another. But I don't care that he mentions the positives of cal in the integration. Do you all really think it's not being hammered out just like that in negotiations? What is wrong saying that cal has the massive presence in the world's largest population center? I'm sorry he didn't recognize uals hold on Denver as was posted earliar. I haven't posted much so the kumbaya can chant on, but this is a business. We have a ton of ****ed off pilots and I have no problem with a guy from jersey rallying the troops like union guys from jersey do. I'm sorry you guys don't like it, but until we have a sLi and jcba then I am still in one part of this group of cal guys. And I want my guys busting ass to get me the best deal possible. And just as many ual guys on this forum have opinions that sound ridiculous to cal guys. For instance referencing how good you and your contract was a decade ago and the implications of that or ratio of widebodies now that you guys lost scope. We laugh about that but ual guys get fired up. "don't say we have old airplanes, don't say we have miserable morale and customer service...". I'm getting a little fed up with the group hug stuff. I hold zero animosity towards any ual guy and I agree we must fight together force jcba. But the comments about our scabs when y'all have plenty also is just naive. If you want to talk about a napoleon complex, take a look at how every positive post about cal is taken as some sort of implied bash of ual. We are independent contractors til we are operationally merged. If you all are so worried about our group fighting tooth and nail for every seniority spot, then you better call your negotiators and tell them to step up their aggressiveness because I guarantee our guys are fighting like hell. And if I was on your side, I'd be upset if my group wasn't fighting that way. I'm not going to be flamed for not patting everyone on the ass here or not promoting unity. We are the ones that have to go to work and say calxxx in united livery, take pictures in front of our airplanes before they say united on them,have to tell people it's ok when they say sorry to hear about the end of continental, or hear jokes about how the service will deteriorate to a ual level now. Those are facts. That is the report from the line. I will be a united pilot when I have a number on the list, a jcba and a united callsign. Until then I want my guys fighting for me. Just as i assume you want. And I don't apologize for saying us, our, united or cal. That is needed for clarity. Let's all keep the napoleon complexes in check on both sides. Cal was in great shape with a great fleet and healthy, growing and advancing it's employees. There is nothing to apologize for there and that doesn't make this a post of ours is bigger. You all have plenty to be proud of too. But right now we each have negotiators busting their butts for our individual butts. And I wouldn't have it any other way. Time to be big boys and not be so sensitive. Oh yeah, kumbaya. Let's see how much kumbaya there is if the list doesn't go the way y'all want. We all are fighting for what we feel is right. Or at least supporting those who are fighting for us. . Be proud of your side and fight like hell for your seniority number. Cheers. And this post wasn't a response totally to the quoted pilot and typed on iPhone
as was posted earliar. I haven't posted much so the kumbaya can chant on, but this is a business. We have a ton of ****ed off pilots and I have no problem with a guy from jersey rallying the troops like union guys from jersey do. I'm sorry you guys don't like it, but until we have a sLi and jcba then I am still in one part of this group of cal guys. And I want my guys busting ass to get me the best deal possible. And just as many ual guys on this forum have opinions that sound ridiculous to cal guys. For instance referencing how good you and your contract was a decade ago and the implications of that or ratio of widebodies now that you guys lost scope. We laugh about that but ual guys get fired up. "don't say we have old airplanes, don't say we have miserable morale and customer service...". I'm getting a little fed up with the group hug stuff. I hold zero animosity towards any ual guy and I agree we must fight together force jcba. But the comments about our scabs when y'all have plenty also is just naive. If you want to talk about a napoleon complex, take a look at how every positive post about cal is taken as some sort of implied bash of ual. We are independent contractors til we are operationally merged. If you all are so worried about our group fighting tooth and nail for every seniority spot, then you better call your negotiators and tell them to step up their aggressiveness because I guarantee our guys are fighting like hell. And if I was on your side, I'd be upset if my group wasn't fighting that way. I'm not going to be flamed for not patting everyone on the ass here or not promoting unity. We are the ones that have to go to work and say calxxx in united livery, take pictures in front of our airplanes before they say united on them,have to tell people it's ok when they say sorry to hear about the end of continental, or hear jokes about how the service will deteriorate to a ual level now. Those are facts. That is the report from the line. I will be a united pilot when I have a number on the list, a jcba and a united callsign. Until then I want my guys fighting for me. Just as i assume you want. And I don't apologize for saying us, our, united or cal. That is needed for clarity. Let's all keep the napoleon complexes in check on both sides. Cal was in great shape with a great fleet and healthy, growing and advancing it's employees. There is nothing to apologize for there and that doesn't make this a post of ours is bigger. You all have plenty to be proud of too. But right now we each have negotiators busting their butts for our individual butts. And I wouldn't have it any other way. Time to be big boys and not be so sensitive. Oh yeah, kumbaya. Let's see how much kumbaya there is if the list doesn't go the way y'all want. We all are fighting for what we feel is right. Or at least supporting those who are fighting for us. . Be proud of your side and fight like hell for your seniority number. Cheers. And this post wasn't a response totally to the quoted pilot and typed on iPhoneThe average CAL line pilot has no control over this process except their single vote for the JCBA. They do not need to be motivated by slanted emotional views which might not have any bearing on the SLI. If the SLI does not go the way they were led to believe, they will feel disenfranchised and angry towards the original UAL pilots over something they had no control over to begin with. The entire 10,000+ UAL pilot group going forward will have been dealt a blow because we have to work together for decades to come. Not just on this contract, but on another within the next 3-5 years. If the UAL MEC simply states that my negotiators are doing everything possible to fight for my rights, that's enough for me. I don't need cheerleaders or baseball bats for this because there is nothing I can do.
I'm curious why the CAL pilots laugh at the UAL wide body ratios? UAL has 113 wide body frames. CAL has 48. That's 42% of UAL's. If you are given credit for your 21 75-300's, CAL has only 61% of UAL's.
Fritz
10-04-2010, 03:56 PM
#36
Need More Callouts
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Unbridled Enthusiasm
Posts: 2,143
Originally Posted by Fritzthepilot
I'm curious why the CAL pilots laugh at the UAL wide body ratios? UAL has 113 wide body frames. CAL has 48. That's 42% of UAL's. If you are given credit for your 21 75-300's, CAL has only 61% of UAL's.
Fritz
Fritz
You're not doing a very good job of proving your point. You've immediately dug up a fact thats convenient for UAL and done the exact same thing as Jayson. Should I counter with the fact that most of the combined group will be staffed on narrow bodies and that we here at CAL make $32.00 per hour more than you do when flying them?
Enough of the bravado. Let the selected Union guys hash this out and call it a day.
10-04-2010, 04:05 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Posts: 111
Originally Posted by Fritzthepilot
So what's the benefit in this case of rallying the troops like jersey union guys? They are not negotiating the SLI, so why do they need to be motivated in such a manner? Surely Capt Brucia and his team don't need convincing do they? I think the EWR lec chair did the CAL pilots at EWR, and the combined UAL group going forward as a whole, a disservice.
The average CAL line pilot has no control over this process except their single vote for the JCBA. They do not need to be motivated by slanted emotional views which might not have any bearing on the SLI. If the SLI does not go the way they were led to believe, they will feel disenfranchised and angry towards the original UAL pilots over something they had no control over to begin with. The entire 10,000+ UAL pilot group going forward will have been dealt a blow because we have to work together for decades to come. Not just on this contract, but on another within the next 3-5 years. If the UAL MEC simply states that my negotiators are doing everything possible to fight for my rights, that's enough for me. I don't need cheerleaders or baseball bats for this because there is nothing I can do.
I'm curious why the CAL pilots laugh at the UAL wide body ratios? UAL has 113 wide body frames. CAL has 48. That's 42% of UAL's. If you are given credit for your 21 75-300's, CAL has only 61% of UAL's.
Fritz
The average CAL line pilot has no control over this process except their single vote for the JCBA. They do not need to be motivated by slanted emotional views which might not have any bearing on the SLI. If the SLI does not go the way they were led to believe, they will feel disenfranchised and angry towards the original UAL pilots over something they had no control over to begin with. The entire 10,000+ UAL pilot group going forward will have been dealt a blow because we have to work together for decades to come. Not just on this contract, but on another within the next 3-5 years. If the UAL MEC simply states that my negotiators are doing everything possible to fight for my rights, that's enough for me. I don't need cheerleaders or baseball bats for this because there is nothing I can do.
I'm curious why the CAL pilots laugh at the UAL wide body ratios? UAL has 113 wide body frames. CAL has 48. That's 42% of UAL's. If you are given credit for your 21 75-300's, CAL has only 61% of UAL's.
Fritz
10-04-2010, 05:12 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: Sitting down and facing front in a plane
Posts: 136
This is truly humorous! Lambourne is about the ONLY person on here that "gets it." ALPA has ZERO leverage WRT this merger...AND THEY KNOW IT!!
Please review Judge Lefkow's finding of fact and opinion in her rendering of the Preliminary Injunction against the United Pilots and ALPA in 2008. ALSO, reference the appellate court judge's affirmation of that rendering following ALPA's lame appeal.
ALPA just doesn't know any other way. As the good book says in 2 Peter 2:22, "A dog returns to his vomit and a sow, after bathing, to the mire." Why does a dog return to his own puke and a pig to the mud? Because that is ALL they know. It is in their genetic make-up. Much like Jayson Baron's assertion that "we are just as militant as the United Pilots" statement. Does ANYONE believe these statements will not be used as evidence if and when this ever comes to court?
The fact is, UAL pilots will be treated to a long drawn out contract negotiation because ALPA and it's puny leadership has no idea what exactly to do!! They simply revert back to their tired, failed policies of coersion, intimidation and BS rhetoric. It's all hollow!
....AND THEY ALL KNOW IT!
Cheers, and best wishes to ALL United Pilots!!
JD
Please review Judge Lefkow's finding of fact and opinion in her rendering of the Preliminary Injunction against the United Pilots and ALPA in 2008. ALSO, reference the appellate court judge's affirmation of that rendering following ALPA's lame appeal.
ALPA just doesn't know any other way. As the good book says in 2 Peter 2:22, "A dog returns to his vomit and a sow, after bathing, to the mire." Why does a dog return to his own puke and a pig to the mud? Because that is ALL they know. It is in their genetic make-up. Much like Jayson Baron's assertion that "we are just as militant as the United Pilots" statement. Does ANYONE believe these statements will not be used as evidence if and when this ever comes to court?
The fact is, UAL pilots will be treated to a long drawn out contract negotiation because ALPA and it's puny leadership has no idea what exactly to do!! They simply revert back to their tired, failed policies of coersion, intimidation and BS rhetoric. It's all hollow!
....AND THEY ALL KNOW IT!
Cheers, and best wishes to ALL United Pilots!!
JD
Last edited by JetDaily; 10-04-2010 at 05:27 PM.
10-04-2010, 07:18 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 234
Originally Posted by A320fumes
As a former one of those knuckleheads, I'm experiencing deja vu. Egos and greed are going to roll this JCBA/SLI right over into a Mitt Romney/ Sarah Palin NMB. Then we are fkced.
I wouldn't read into what we see on the forums too much.
10-04-2010, 08:43 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 230
Originally Posted by 757Driver
Fitz,
You're not doing a very good job of proving your point. You've immediately dug up a fact thats convenient for UAL and done the exact same thing as Jayson. Should I counter with the fact that most of the combined group will be staffed on narrow bodies and that we here at CAL make $32.00 per hour more than you do when flying them?
Enough of the bravado. Let the selected Union guys hash this out and call it a day.
You're not doing a very good job of proving your point. You've immediately dug up a fact thats convenient for UAL and done the exact same thing as Jayson. Should I counter with the fact that most of the combined group will be staffed on narrow bodies and that we here at CAL make $32.00 per hour more than you do when flying them?
Enough of the bravado. Let the selected Union guys hash this out and call it a day.
If I've learned anything in the past 9 years at United, it's not to sweat or waste time over what I can't control.
Fritz
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